Sunday, 2008-03-02

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Appleman1234mithro: no just roleplaying for the moment00:00
mithroahh well00:00
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mithrowb krazytekn000:07
krazytekn0thanks mithro00:07
mithrohey jotham00:36
mithroyou see the pyglet alpha?00:36
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mithro~seen JLP00:53
tpbmithro: JLP was last seen in #tp 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: * JLP goes sleeping, see you in about 8 hours00:53
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* llnz has problems with his xorg setup02:10
mithrollnz: dang :/02:26
llnzupdated xorg has removed mergedFD, now trying to get xrandr to do the right thing02:27
llnzso currently have cloned screens02:28
mithrotpserver-py should work again02:30
llnzcool02:33
mithrollnz: do you want to help clean up the ideas page? The application process for GSoC starts late tommorrow (really Tuesday for us)02:33
llnzmithro: sure, i'll lend a hand02:33
mithrollnz: you where going to move the tpserver-cpp stuff to another page?02:35
mithrollnz: btw, your head makes multiple appearances in the Gaming Miniconf videos02:35
llnzi was thinking of it, do you think i should02:35
llnzoh02:35
llnznot too disruptive i hope02:36
mithrollnz: you can see for yourself in a bit02:38
llnzcool02:38
mithrojust finishing the lightening talks editing02:38
mithroOhm: (for when you get up) you might be interested in this task http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers#Intergrate_and_improve_schemepy02:41
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cQD> (at www.thousandparsec.net)02:41
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llnzbrb, rebooting to newer kernel03:02
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llnzback in business!03:06
* JLP wakes up (8 hours later almost to the minute :) )03:08
JLPmithro: yeah, i was thinking about converting this to subtitles03:09
JLPoh cool miniconf videos are coming :)03:11
mithroi'll be back later, dinner03:16
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* llnz thinks we need a way to mark Ideas as suitable for short times, and gsoc sized projects03:37
JLPllnz: yup, possibly color coded to find it easier03:40
llnzi was thinking small icons, actually03:41
JLPllnz: or this, or both03:41
llnzyeah, both would be helpful03:42
JLPnow someboday has to create nice icons, or we could use the oxygen icons for game difficukty level or something03:43
llnzmaybe a star for easy and the gsoc logo for gsoc?03:44
mithroI think if they said they where going to 4-5 of the smaller tpclient-pywx tasks that would make an okay gsoc project04:11
llnztrue04:13
JLPmithro: well as far as i know there is nothing in gsoc that says this can't be a gsoc project, with 5 smaller subprojects04:14
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mithroJLP: well, the larger project is "Improve tpclient-pywx"04:15
JLPexactly04:16
llnzthat was the wrong thing to do04:16
mithrollnz: kill X again?04:25
llnzi did04:25
llnzi tried dragging a video window from one monitor to another04:26
mithrohe he04:27
llnzand watching a video causes the second monitor to reset about every 3 seconds04:27
mithro:/04:29
llnzand no one on #xorg has helped me yet04:38
mithrollnz: which driver?04:39
llnzati(radeon)04:40
llnzthe free radeon driver04:40
* mithro is using the radeonhd driver04:40
mithrobut I only have 1 screen at the moment04:40
JLPi'm using the open source radeon and so far dual screen works fine here04:40
llnzJLP: mergedFD or xrandr?04:41
JLPxrandr04:41
mithroxrandr 1.2 is the way to go if your driver supports it04:41
* llnz only has a radeon 960004:41
llnzi does04:41
* JLP only has some integrated radeon xpress laptop chipset04:42
mithrollnz: my older computer has a 9600pro04:42
mithroyou guys working on the wiki page?04:44
llnzi had done a little04:44
mithro(at this moment?)04:44
llnznot currently04:44
JLPmithro: i'm writing the text for the second part of video tutorials04:44
mithroJLP: cool04:45
mithrollnz: my main concern with minisec is,04:45
mithro1. It's the first thing most people encounter (as it is running on demo1)04:45
mithro2. If we have GSoC students working on a tpserver-cpp ruleset, it's probably a good example04:45
mithrollnz: but a 0.5.0 release is probably more important04:47
llnzyeah04:49
mithroJLP: I'm assume you saw the "actions" I added to the script04:49
mithroalso explained your 'why' question04:49
mithrollnz: any idea when nash gets back to Australia?04:52
llnzlate monday, iirc04:52
llnzi couldn't get in touch with him, btw04:52
llnzmight not have his cellphone on04:53
JLPmithro: yup i've seen these04:53
JLPmithro: one question about the tuen numbers in the system tree04:56
mithrothe numbers are, [<turns to complete the first order>, <turns to complete all orders>]04:57
JLPif you check the video there i have set some build orders on the planet, first one shows 1 turn, the second shows 8 turns04:57
JLPbut the tree view shows 1,704:57
JLPshouldn't it be 1, 904:57
mithrohrm... possibly04:58
JLPcheck from 7:45 on for example04:59
mithroJLP: hrm? could you log a bug report05:00
JLPmithro: will do05:00
mithrooh that is a timecode05:00
JLPmithro: yeah the time in the video05:00
mithroJLP: it probably doesn't update if you change the orders either?05:01
JLPmithro: maybe, will take a look later, don't have the state from the video anymore05:04
JLPTurn minisec into a "demo" ruleset <- is this supposed to be in Todo and not in Bug tracker?05:09
mithroJLP: dunno - it seems more like a bug to me :) - it's just code cleanup05:10
JLPmithro: both then :)05:11
mithrollnz: have you added the tech/research stuff somewhere?05:13
llnzmithro: i have the tech/research design (protocol) done, just waiting to finish tpserver-cpp 0.5.0 first05:14
mithrollnz: is there anything I can link too?05:14
llnznot yet05:14
* llnz has it on dead trees05:14
llnzi will put it on the wiki soon, if you like05:18
* jotham sighs05:18
* jotham just got home05:18
jothamspent the entire day writing some fucking hacks for a content management system05:18
jothami hate web dev05:18
jothami swear i get no free time these days05:18
jothamit's killing me05:18
jothamand it's cold05:19
llnzhi jotham05:19
jothamhey05:19
jothamis it wet down there?05:19
jothamit's like winter here05:19
llnzyes05:19
llnzcold here too05:20
jothamsucks05:20
mithrohey jotham05:22
mithrojotham: you see the pyglet alpha?05:22
jothamno i haven't seen anything but php for 2 days05:22
jotham:\05:22
jothamfuck php is a fucking crap language05:22
jothamgod05:22
* jotham checks pyglet05:22
jothamwhoa05:23
jothamthat's a serious upgrade05:23
mithroJLP: what is your launchpad username?05:24
mithrollnz: do you have a launchpad username?05:24
llnznope05:24
jothamthat's cool mithro05:24
jothamthe new alpha05:24
jothamthat's a lot of changes05:24
mithrojust looking at the blueprinting system, it looks like it could be pretty good for the ideas stuff05:25
mithrojotham: yeah, Alex and Richard are caining along05:28
mithropyglet will be self aware in a couple of months :P05:28
jothamit's awesome05:28
jothami need pyglet for 3 projects atm05:28
jothamso i am kinda shitty i am getting no time05:28
jothamreading the red book is kinda getting me excited though05:30
jothamsurprised something like pyglet didn't come along earlier05:31
jothami guess opioid2D was a bit like it05:31
JLPmithro: sorry, was away, it is jlp if i'm not mistaken05:36
mithroJLP: yeah - found it05:36
mithroyou are now part of the Thousand Parsec group on Launchpad05:37
mithroJLP: so how goes that script?06:17
jothamdo you guys know uhm06:18
jothami need to impliment some kind of set code06:18
mithrouhm?06:18
jothamfrom scratch06:18
mithroupcoming horror movies?06:19
jothamlike, so i can determin items that belong to 2 sets, or remove items from a set that belong to some group of other sets06:19
jothamefficiently06:19
jothampython has it built in, but i'm not using python06:19
mithrostl has one too06:19
jothamso i'd like to port some code from somewhere else to ecmascript06:19
jothamhard to google for 'set' and have anything remotely useful come up, no matter how you bunch it with keywords06:19
llnzintersection and difference, should be plenty of implementations06:20
jothami'm not a computer scientist, so i don't really know what to search for06:20
JLPmithro: starmap is done, now i will describe other panels around it06:21
mithroJLP: cool06:21
llnzjotham: intersection and difference06:21
llnzintersection finds items that appear in both sets06:22
mithroI'm sure that someone would have implimented a set for emacsscript06:22
jothamok cheers06:22
* jotham proceeds to find people recommending python06:23
mithrohe he06:27
mithrojotham: sets operations are easy to impliment if you have ordered lists06:28
jothamthese are lists of objects, so not ordered i guess06:29
jothami can only compare to instances to see if they are the same using ==06:29
jothamthat's all06:29
jothamand delving into their internal data wouldn't be apropriate06:29
jothamI am not very good at algorithms so i was hoping to find someone elses wheel and just retool it for my needs06:30
mithrojotham: well, if you only have a == set operations will be O(n)06:30
jothami am going to give dojo.collections.Set a check06:30
mithrojotham: you could sort on things like the memory id and have it still work06:31
jothami have no access to the memory06:31
jothambut being able to pass a lambda to the algo so it knows how to sort the records based on their internal fields might be a plan06:32
mithrointersection/union are only like 5 lines of code if you have ordered lists06:34
jothamso i should just go and read the inevitable wiki pages and write them06:34
jothambecause at this point i have no idea of the license implications from porting the 400 lines of dojo code and then putting it in a comercial product06:35
mithrojotham: if you get stuck, just give me a bell06:36
jothamok06:36
jothamit's 12:30 and i have to get a WOF for my car at 6:30 *sigh*06:36
jothamnot enough hours in the day06:36
mithrothe set mathematics notation is pretty annoying06:36
mithroWOF?06:36
jothamwarrent of fitness06:36
mithroahh :/06:37
mithroI assume no battleviewer progress? Will the pyglet alpha help you?06:37
jothamoften it's the math notation that confuses the shit out of me when reading about comp sci topics06:37
jothamrather than the actual subject06:37
jothami changed my code to use the pyglet event system, after getting a response from that guy06:37
* mithro has a crappy memory, so I keep forgetting what the symbols mean :/06:37
jothambut that's about it06:37
jothami really fucking want to get back to where i was before i switched from pygame06:38
jothamit's annoying me06:38
jothamalso i am going to compete in that crazy pymike's competition06:38
jothamoh i see what you are saying about ordered06:42
jothamyeah that's trivial06:42
jothamhum06:42
jothammakes union, intersection, and difference a piece of cake06:42
mithrojotham: yeah06:43
jothami basically have to impliment a database of sorts06:43
mithrodang, sqlite is public domain06:44
jothamyeah but not embeddable inside actionscript/flash06:44
mithroI wonder if someone has done a C->actionscript VM compiler06:45
mithrooh cool - http://www.brajeshwar.com/2008/cc-to-actionscript-compiler/06:46
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cRF> (at www.brajeshwar.com)06:46
jothamhah wow06:47
jothamthat's insane06:47
mithrohttp://www.brajeshwar.com/2008/cc-to-actionscript-compiler/06:48
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cRF> (at www.brajeshwar.com)06:48
jothami've spent quite a few days this week dealing with the flash bytecode06:54
jothambeen having wierd errors with the open source compiler we use06:54
* llnz puts up the initial proposal for Research Frames07:02
llnzhttp://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Research_Frames07:02
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cRO> (at www.thousandparsec.net)07:02
mithrollnz: cool07:02
* mithro needs to take some leave and work on thousand parsec stuff :)07:02
* llnz needs to too!07:03
llnzbtw: i am away Thursday till Wednesday, exciting times07:03
llnzwill probably have net access and should be working on tpserver-cpp07:04
mithrollnz: cool07:04
* llnz wanders off07:07
llnzlater all07:07
mithrojotham: this useful at all - http://seantheflashguy.com/blog/2007/06/14/super-simple-sqlite-example-for-adobe-air-1-beta/ ?07:07
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cRR> (at seantheflashguy.com)07:08
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JLPyay, part 2 complete07:09
mithroJLP: yay!07:09
mithroJLP: I think you should probably add the "preferences" button to the first tutorial07:10
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mithroJLP: any idea how to do subtitles?07:10
JLPmithro: nope idea, yet07:11
mithroJLP: I managed to reproduce your bug http://www.thousandparsec.net/~tim/bug.png :)07:13
JLPtext saved into wiki07:13
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JLPon to Part III - Giving Orders07:15
CIA-12mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * rdc209e8f9225 /windows/main/panelOrder.py: Also call the order window layout method.07:15
CIA-12mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r5c0261586453 /windows/main/panelSystem.py: Fixed a bug in the Systems turn counter.07:15
mithroJLP: fixed07:15
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mithrothe first number is the turns till the first order finishes, the second number is the number of turns to complete all other orders (apart from the first one)07:16
* JLP remebers he should add end of turn stuff to part 207:16
mithroJLP: do you know if you hold down shift the message prev/next turn into first/last ?07:19
JLPmithro: didn't know this trick07:19
mithroJLP: have not been reading your tips? :)07:20
JLPmithro: i never read the tips :)07:21
mithroI need to re-add in copy and paste support to the orders window07:21
mithroJLP: you must have translated them at some point?07:21
JLPmithro: don't remember translating them for pywx, in KDE other people usually did this07:22
mithroJLP: can you log a bug regarding the copy/paste of orders07:22
JLPmithro: will do07:24
mithroJLP: looks like they my not be in the pot file07:24
CIA-12mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r10ee42a0e7f9 /locale/generate.sh: Also include the tips.txt file in translation.07:26
CIA-12mithro tpclient-pywx-stable * r1117bc95fc0f /locale/tpclient-pywx.pot: Updated tpclient-pywx.pot file.07:26
mithroJLP: that would be why you have not read them :)07:27
JLP:)07:27
* JLP notes it would be usefull to read all these tips in vorious apps07:27
JLPmithro: looks like copy paste bug is already reported - https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1877755&group_id=132078&atid=72309907:29
tpbBug #1877755: Orders pane is missing context menu07:29
mithroJLP: cool07:30
mithroJLP: found another bug :/07:39
mithromight be with tpserver-cpp however07:39
Ohmmorning everybody08:07
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JLPOhm: good morning08:14
Ohmmithro: the integrate/improve schemepy looks like it could be a fun challenge08:15
Ohmbut the required skill strong python skills worries me, as I have no python skills at all08:16
Ohmhold on, I've got to restart the computer08:16
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mithroOhm: you have till March 31 to learn python - as you seem to know lisp I doubt you will have any problems - if you have a play with schemepy it would be a good start08:23
mithroopps he left08:23
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Ohmmade some breakfast aswell08:49
JLPOhm: <mithro> Ohm: you have till March 31 to learn python - as you seem to know lisp I doubt you will have any problems - if you have a play with schemepy it would be a good start08:50
tpbdisconnected from worldforge: Ping sent at 2008-03-02T08:49:19 not replied to.08:51
mithroarg!08:52
mithrothis last video just won't encode properly08:52
OhmJLP: sounds good08:54
mithroOhm: on a side note, the schemepy is probably not a high priority task09:00
Ohmhm, ok09:00
mithroOhm: rulesets, web client, tpclient-pywx imporvements and AI are all higher priority09:02
Ohmokay09:02
OhmAI or tpclient would be fun to work on09:02
OhmI guess this is a good opportunity to learn Python.09:03
OhmCan't really see myself having any problems with it, though. I know C#, VB.Net, used to know perl, ADA and a bit of C++09:04
OhmPython is just another language, not many new concepts to wrap your head around09:04
Ohmbeing imperative and all that09:05
mithroOhm: If you have played with lisp you should feel right at home with python09:21
Ohmwonderful09:21
* mithro beats his head against a wall09:26
JLPmithro: don't do that, we still need you for TP09:27
* mithro gives up with theora09:28
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Ohmmithro: what movies are you encoding?09:46
mithroOhm: the Gaming Miniconf at Linux.conf.au 200809:47
mithroI was the organiser for it09:47
mithroOhm: it's what I'm going to get you to seed in a bit09:48
Ohmoh, cool09:49
tpbtpb has joined on worldforge09:49
tpbmode change by purple.worldforge.org on worldforge: +nt09:49
OhmAswell as being interested in seeing the films, seeding them will be a good thing09:49
mithroOhm: there are some quite interesting talks09:50
mithroit's 1:23am here :/09:51
Ohmmithro: Trying to add your ubuntu repos, but they keep 404ing09:51
Ohmsame thing iwth the pgp key09:51
mithroOhm: what ubuntu version?09:51
Ohmgutsy09:51
tpbmode change by blue.worldforge.org on worldforge: -o tpb09:51
tpbmode change by blue.worldforge.org on worldforge: -t09:51
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OhmFailed to fetch http://packages.thousandparsec.net/dists/gutsy/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found09:52
mithromaybe I stuff up the instructions09:52
OhmFailed to fetch http://packages.thousandparsec.net/dists/gutsy/universe/source/Sources.gz  404 Not Found09:52
mithrothe key is yet to be uploaded09:52
Ohmah, so that's why that didn't work09:52
mithrooh dang09:52
mithroyou need09:52
Ohmthe instructions look pretty solid though09:52
mithrodeb http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu DIST universe09:52
tpbTitle: Index of /ubuntu (at packages.thousandparsec.net)09:52
mithrogive that a go?09:53
Ohmsure09:53
Ohmyeah, that worked09:53
Ohmsame with deb-src [...]/ubuntu DIST universe?09:54
mithroahh cool09:54
mithroyeah09:54
Ohmyep, it worked09:54
Ohmhttp://packages.thousandparsec.net/ <-- might want to change this page09:55
tpbTitle: Index of / (at packages.thousandparsec.net)09:55
Ohmmithro: argh, can't install09:56
Ohmdepends on 0.6.1ubuntu1 version of python-support09:57
OhmI have 0.7.109:57
Ohm(I think)09:57
mithrohrm09:57
mithrowe have not tested the gusty packages yet09:57
Ohmhttp://owner.rnachoctb.org/aptget.txt09:57
Ohmthose are the errors I'm getting09:58
mithroOhm: can you poke bddebian next time he is around09:58
mithrohe is building on hardy I think is the problem09:58
Ohmdo you have a statically linked binary for me to test in the meantime?10:02
mithroyou can follow the non-experimental instructions10:02
mithrohttp://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/gettingstarted.php10:02
tpb<http://ln-s.net/J4s> (at www.thousandparsec.net)10:02
mithrowoot!10:06
mithrofinally10:06
mithrothis last video has been through 5 video tools :/10:06
Ohmheh10:06
mithrodvgrab -> kdenlive -> lca video scripts -> avidemux -> ffmpeg2theora10:07
mithroeverything else when dvgrab->lca video scripts10:08
mithros/when/went10:08
Ohm"get a mac"10:12
Ohm(i am joking of course)10:12
mithroOhm: don't get me started on Mac's10:13
Ohmmanaged to run the tpclient-pywx10:13
mithrothey are the biggest headache to support10:13
Ohm* Delete, remove the currently selected order10:14
Ohm* <, next order (shift will add the next order to the selection)10:14
Ohm* >, previous order (shift will add the previous order to the selection)10:14
Ohmugh10:14
Ohmplease change these in the future10:15
mithroplus there is no legal way to get MacOS X without expensive hardware10:15
mithroOhm: why?10:15
Ohmon european keyboard layouts, it's impossible to do shift+<10:15
* mithro pokes JLP 10:15
Ohmbecause shift+< is our way of typing >10:15
Ohmand obviously it's impossible to do shift+> since shift has to be held to produce a > at all10:16
mithroOhm: I wonder if that code is looking at the char or the keycode10:16
OhmMaybe not all eu layouts, but the Swedish and Finnish ones at least10:16
JLPmithro: yo10:16
mithroJLP: do you see the same problem as Ohm?10:16
Ohmcanadian/french layout will have the same problem10:17
Ohmas will danish10:17
Ohmand dutch10:17
Ohmand italian10:17
Ohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout10:17
tpbTitle: Keyboard layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)10:17
Ohmand norwegian10:17
JLPmithro: yup slovenian keyboard is the same10:18
mithroOhm: so what do you suggest we use?10:18
mithroletters seem to move around the keyboard too :/10:19
Ohmreplace < and > with z and x10:19
Ohmah yeah10:19
mithroand Ctrl-Z == Undo in the near future10:20
mithroCtrl-X == Cut10:20
Ohmhungary and germany will have problems with z and x10:20
Ohm:/10:20
Ohmand germany is huge10:20
Ohmhow about w?10:20
Ohm*qw10:20
Ohmonly the french and belgians will have problems with that, as they use azerty10:21
OhmAHA10:22
Ohmusing e and r will solve your problems10:22
Ohmeven the turkish qwerty has E and R at the same places10:22
mithroOhm: you have pmsg10:28
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mithroJLP: ping?10:44
JLPmithro: pong10:45
mithroJLP: you have a pmsg10:52
JLPmithro: got it, just setting it up on my always on server10:53
mithroJLP: well I see two peers connected11:01
JLPmithro: yup seems right11:04
mithrowell I need to head to bed11:09
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LukstrHello all16:39
JLPLukstr: ahoy16:39
LukstrI have a query, for anyone of the TP team really16:41
JLPLukstr: i can try to help16:41
LukstrJLP: Instead of jumping headfirst into a SoC-ish project, I feel like it would be better to start with something really small, like a bug fix or small feature or testing something first, as to get a good feel for the project. Anything you can suggest?16:42
JLPLukstr: very good thinking, i think that you could help the most by helping with the python/wxwidgets client or c++ server16:43
Lukstrhm, well since I'm more of a c/c++ guy and have only touched on python (however will be hitting the books with it over the next month for a project), I guess that's where to start. Who heads (or appropriate term) the C++ server?16:45
JLPLukstr: Lee Begg, has nickname llnz here on irc, from New Zelans so he will be asleep for a couple of more hours16:47
Lukstrah okay16:47
Lukstrthank you :)16:49
JLPLukstr: no problem, you're more than welcome16:49
JLPLukstr: if your timezone isn't the best match for New Zeland you can also introduce yourself on the developers mailing list and Lee will sure see the e-mail there16:52
JLPhttp://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/mailman.php/listinfo/tp-devel16:52
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1DpR> (at www.thousandparsec.net)16:52
Lukstrah yes, I'm already on the mailing list16:52
Lukstrbut I will send an introduction email16:53
JLPLukstr: cool16:53
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LukstrHello16:59
llnzhi all16:59
JLPllnz: ahoy16:59
Lukstrllnz: JLP recommended I speak to you about helping out with the c++ server16:59
Ohmspeak of teh devil17:00
* llnz now has a wide screen at uni and can therefore have irc open17:00
llnzLukstr: cool17:00
mithroJLP / Ohm: had any chance to checkout the videos?17:00
mithrowould be good to check them before I release to the world17:01
Ohmmithro: nope, just got home17:01
Ohmbeen to campus, worked on our ADA project17:01
JLPmithro: not yet, i only noticed they are much smaller in size then last year17:01
Ohmthen met an old friend who lives far away now17:01
Ohmthen ate, and now I'm here17:01
OhmGonna check out git.17:01
mithroJLP: they should be the same quality as the rest of the LCA videos17:01
JLPmithro: yeah i guessed, same script right17:02
Lukstrllnz: I'm looking for something small to work on so I can get a feel for the project, maybe a bugfix or something.17:04
mithroJLP: i'm going to do a high quality version of the pyglet tutorial when I figure out the right settings17:04
llnzLukstr: a couple of small things are here: http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers#Tpserver-cpp17:06
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cVg> (at www.thousandparsec.net)17:06
llnznamely the Calendar Timer, and the change to Boost.Random17:07
Lukstrllnz: the boost.random change sounds interesting enough, how might I get started?17:09
llnzLukstr: get the sources from the git repo, have a look at prng.h and cpp, have a look how and where Random object is used17:11
Lukstrroger17:11
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* Lukstr begins to learn git17:24
OhmLukstr: there are some pretty good video presentations on how git works17:28
Ohmsearch for git engedu on video.google.com17:28
Ohmthen choose only long (>20min) videos17:28
LukstrOhm: excellent, will do. Think I'm getting the hang of it, I've had a lot of experience with other CVS, i.e. svn and homerolled solutions17:28
Ohmalright17:29
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Ohmmithro: where, if at all, are you going to post the miniconf torrent?18:41
OhmI think an interesting place to put it would be piratebay, amongst others. Maybe spark some interest into the OSS-game-making thing.18:42
llnzthere was a discussion on the lca mailing list about where torrents should be tracked18:43
Ohmwant to preserve CC-licensing stuff?18:44
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llnzhi krazytekn018:50
krazytekn0hi llnz18:51
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krazytekn0llnz: I'm looking into tpserver-cpp you're pretty much running that right?18:54
llnzyes, that is correct18:54
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JLafontallo18:58
JLPJLafont: ahoy18:58
JLafontHow is everyone doing?19:01
llnzkrazytekn0: are you interested in anything in particular?19:01
llnzhi JLafont19:01
krazytekn0llnz: I was thinking about working on a module to do console based configuration on startup.19:02
JLPJLafont: slowly getting sleepy :)19:02
llnzkrazytekn0: cool19:02
OhmI am programming a math duel game in ADA19:03
Ohmnetworked19:04
JLafontJLP: I know how you feel19:04
Ohmit's pretty fun19:05
Ohmpretty challenging, as it's the first time we deal with threads and network stuff19:06
JLafontAwesome19:06
Ohmwe've got pretty much everything solved, though, so now all we need is to code-monkey it up and complete it19:06
JLafontI love multithreading, unfortunately my University kinda fails at giving us any good networking stuff19:07
krazytekn0Ohm how do you like ADA compared to Lisp?19:08
jothammain problem with multithreading is, like singletons, inexperienced developers think they are the right answers to the wrong problems19:10
jothamthe lighttpd guy is interesting to follow, regarding threading19:10
Ohmkrazytekn0: They're so different comparing them is pretty futile.19:10
JLafontIsn't ADA more imperative, while LISP is functional?19:10
OhmLisp is functional, ADA is imperative.19:11
OhmYes.19:11
OhmTechnically, lisp isn't functional, but it is mostly used as if it was.19:11
JLafontjotham: Care to elaborate?19:11
llnzjotham: interesting, where can i find it?19:11
OhmWe try to thread as little as possible, even though ADA has very elegant support for it.19:12
jothamJLafont: often people think threading is the answer to dealing with blockages in code, but it GUI event loops, network transactions, or data processing19:12
Ohm*be19:12
jothamoften things like a better knowledge of engineering and coroutines are the sollution19:12
Ohmright?19:13
jothamllnz: http://www.lighttpd.net/benchmark19:13
tpbTitle: lighttpd fly light (at www.lighttpd.net)19:13
JLafontjotham: ahh yeah, I agree with that. What about lighttpd?19:13
JLafontWoops nvm19:14
jothamwe get a lot of people using pythons not-really-threading threads with pygame19:14
OhmIf not for threads, how can one wait for something while simultaneously doing something else?19:16
jothamthe answer tends to be you often don't have to wait19:17
OhmOr is it about engineering things into as little threading as possible?19:17
jothamyeah you've got it19:17
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bddebianHowdy19:26
JLafontAllo19:27
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llnzhi bddebian19:28
bddebianHello llnz19:28
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JLPOhm: you had some problems with *buntu packages right?19:32
bddebianProbably.  Anything less than Hardy is likely broken19:35
OhmJLP: yep19:35
JLPOhm: now's the time to have a chat with bddebian, our packager19:36
Ohmhttp://owner.rnachoctb.org/aptget.txt19:36
Ohmbddebian: There you have the errors I got when trying to apt-get install the python client.19:36
Ohmalso, the adresses here are erronous: http://packages.thousandparsec.net/19:37
tpbTitle: Index of / (at packages.thousandparsec.net)19:37
Ohmfor me, I had to use http://packages.thousandparsec.net/ubuntu rather than without the /ubuntu19:38
tpbTitle: Index of /ubuntu (at packages.thousandparsec.net)19:38
bddebianYeah should be .../ubuntu universe19:38
Ohm.../ubuntu gutsy universe ;)19:38
Ohmfor me19:38
bddebianOh aye, forgot the distro19:42
Ohmanyways, if you need me to do more specific things in finding what the problem is, give me a ping19:43
bddebianI know the problem, it's dependency version issues :-(19:43
bddebianI just haven't had a chance to rebuild the packages yet19:43
Ohmkay19:44
Ohmmithro: Hope you don't mind, but I'm removing your account now. Don't want unused things to be lying around.19:45
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* JLP is going sleeping, see you in ~8 h20:45
JLafontJLP: Cya later20:50
LukstrOhm, bddebian: sorry if I'm chirping in late, I got the same errors a few days ago21:15
bddebianYeah I know, I'm behind :-(21:16
Lukstrbddebian: hehe no worries :)21:17
Lukstrbrb switing OS's21:18
Lukstrs/switing/switching21:18
Ohmthe statically linked 0.3.0 works well, so right now there are no hurries21:18
* Lukstr pauses.21:19
LukstrWhat's a good light-weight OS that I could run in VM to program?21:19
Ohmdepends on what you want to program21:19
Ohmbut regardless, I don't think I have any good advice to give21:20
LukstrOhm: I want to program everything :)21:21
LukstrI run a slax VMWare in ubuntu on my laptop sometimes21:21
Lukstrllnz: does tpserver-cpp compile on wind0ze boxes, out of curiosity?21:22
llnzLukstr: it has done, mithro did a few times21:22
Lukstrhm21:23
LukstrI run msys+mingw on my wind0ze box, should I give it a shot?21:23
llnzsure21:24
llnzsomewhere on mithro's blog is details about how he did it last time21:24
Lukstroh? I will check it out21:25
Ohmoh21:27
Ohmurl to mithro blog plz21:27
llnzhttp://blog.mithis.net/21:28
tpbTitle: Mithro rants about stuff : (at blog.mithis.net)21:28
Ohmty21:30
llnzLukstr: http://blog.mithis.net/archives/tp/10-compiling-tpserver-cpp-under-windows21:30
tpb<http://ln-s.net/1cYM> (at blog.mithis.net)21:30
Lukstryeah I'm reading that right now21:31
llnzi integrated libltdl and all the patches21:31
Lukstrinteresting21:31
Lukstrare you guys interested in making the code more portable in the future?21:32
llnzthe python client is very portable21:33
llnzthe server is portable across unix systems21:34
Lukstrsorry, the server is what I was referring to21:34
Lukstrbut not windows systems :P21:34
llnzi'm not specifically supporting windows21:35
Lukstrgood call21:35
LukstrI was just curious21:35
llnzi may accept patches for windows though21:36
Lukstri.e. make windows work with your code? :P21:36
llnzbasically21:37
Lukstrwell, there are rumours of the next windows having a unix-esque kernel :P21:38
Ohmmay be so, but they won't be compatible21:38
Ohmthey have everything to lose in increasing compatibility21:39
Lukstryup21:39
LukstrI hardly believe it would happen, and if it did I don't know what the catch would be, but there were talks of supporting GNU programs/code natively21:39
Ohmthat would definitely be good for them, but I think that portability would only be one-way21:40
Ohm(just like with OS X)21:40
LukstrNo doubt.21:41
krazytekn0Lukstr: I know this is a bit late but emacs is a great OS to program in, all it needs is a good text editor :)22:15
Lukstrkrazytekn0: Always been more of a vi guy myself :P22:16
OhmI'd much rather use emacs than vi (i've tried both a lot)22:17
Ohmand I'd probably use emacs rather than vim 622:18
krazytekn0I have never used vi much. My problem would be that I seem have buffer overflow of the brain... whenever I learn something new it pushes something old out the other end22:18
Ohmbut vim 7 beats them all22:18
krazytekn0So I can't afford to learn how to use vi :)22:18
Ohmkrazytekn0: fyi, the human brain can remember more than you can absorb in a lifetime, counting in bits of info22:18
Ohmthings tend to fade into obscurity for some reason, though22:19
Ohmprevent this by practicing22:19
Ohmworks in learning languages, works in using text editors22:19
krazytekn0Ohm: but... how do you know what our brain is really learning?...22:19
krazytekn0The amount of info (in bits) that a human brain extracts from any situation/circumstance is not limited to just that which one is trying to learn22:20
Ohmkrazytekn0: most research shows that you don't lose memory, you just lose the ability to access it22:20
krazytekn0Ohm: so we need more address space?22:20
Ohmthe brain has capacity to remember all information you can absorb, filtered or not22:20
Ohmkrazytekn0: Not really. As you may know, current science says memories are collections of neurons linked together22:21
Ohmany connection being used is also strengthened22:21
Ohmwhile unused connections fade22:22
Ohmthis is true both for memories and feeling emotions22:22
krazytekn0Ohm: so someone has been able to sit down and figure out the maximum number of bits of information presented to a human in a given amount of time? that sounds impossible to me...22:22
Ohmkrazytekn0: It probably wasn't done in a single sitting. ;)22:23
krazytekn0Ohm: It probably wasn't done.22:23
OhmI think what they counted is the amount of possibly representable states, by counting the number of ways the neurons can be connected.22:23
Ohmkrazytekn0: Have you been reading cognitive psychology?22:24
krazytekn0I agree with most of what you are saying, but a blanket statement like that is so improbably hard to prove...It's akin to finding the Ramsey number of (10,10)22:24
OhmIt's not about proving, it's about disproving. ;)22:24
OhmAnyways, what the brain can store and what is useful for us are entirely different22:25
krazytekn0Ohm: that's exactly what I'm saying.22:25
Ohmobviously the mechanism for information access does not allow us to remember everything22:25
OhmAll I want to get at is don't limit yourself based on negative ideas like that22:26
krazytekn0Ohm: did you see the :) ? that means I was joking22:26
krazytekn0I'm still just playing around by the way22:26
Ohmheh, I didn't see it actually22:26
krazytekn0I don't want this to be construed as an argument22:27
Ohmme neither22:27
OhmI think we were getting along22:27
krazytekn0Ok, ya just never know on teh intarwebs!22:27
Ohmi am just lying around feeling good about myself22:27
Ohmindeed22:27
Ohmwatching Surplus, going to head to bed in a bit22:28
Ohmi really like the way they've mixed music and imagery22:30
OhmWell, heading to bed now. Good night fellas22:31
krazytekn0night22:31
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mithroafternoon people22:53
llnzhi mithro22:53
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mithroOhm / JLP: any chance to view the videos?23:01
JLafontallo mithro23:04
llnzit was an interesting day, i'll have to remember to sign into IRC from uni more often23:11
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mithrohi JLafont23:12
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JLafonthow is it going?23:43
mithropretty good23:44
JLafontawesome.23:45
JLafontSo I have a basic Idea of what to do with the AI, I just need to flesh it out a little bit more23:45
JLafontI think the hardest thing would be to figure out how to abstract the AI to work for multiple rulesets23:45
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JLafontI'll try to work on it more when I don't have the flu and thus don't have to pass out every 2 hours23:47
mithroJLafont: okay cool23:47
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