| *** tpb has joined #melangedev | 08:36 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tpb | 08:36 | |
| *** SRabbelier has joined #melangedev | 09:13 | |
| *** Lennie has joined #melangedev | 09:36 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Lennie | 09:36 | |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: O HI | 09:43 |
|---|---|---|
| Lennie | hi | 09:45 |
| Lennie | Thousand Parsec bot? | 09:45 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier no ops :P? | 09:45 |
| SRabbelier | heh | 09:45 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SRabbelier | 09:46 | |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I are the opz | 09:46 |
| Lennie | Flags for SRabbelier in #melangedev are +votsriRfAF | 09:46 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: tpb? it means "the pirate bay", didn't you know? | 09:46 |
| Lennie | dont fool me | 09:46 |
| Lennie | �� tpb is "Thousand Parsec IRC Bot" ([email protected]) | 09:46 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: :P | 09:46 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: added +O | 09:47 |
| Lennie | what's the bot doing here are we being logged now :)? | 09:47 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: yes, we are | 09:47 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: check your mail :P | 09:47 |
| Lennie | no results for tpb :P | 09:48 |
| * Lennie waves at tpb and says "Hi mum!" | 09:48 | |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: looks like you weren't cced :P | 09:48 |
| Lennie | failers! | 09:49 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logd/ | 09:49 |
| tpb | Title: IRC logs (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 09:49 |
| Lennie | send me a copy | 09:49 |
| Lennie | who tricked thousand parsecs in giving us an IRC log bot :)? | 09:49 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: forwarded | 09:50 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: logs updated, looks like all is well | 09:51 |
| Lennie | apparently | 09:51 |
| Lennie | private openly loggend channel | 09:52 |
| Lennie | hmm ^^ | 09:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: correct :P | 09:53 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: hit refresh, css updated | 09:54 |
| Lennie | cool | 09:54 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier | 09:56 |
| Lennie | The co-mentor stuff is done | 09:56 |
| Lennie | time for tests untill end of next month :) | 09:56 |
| Lennie | you got your suite running again? | 09:56 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: no, haven't been home much yesterday | 09:57 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: don't even have eclipse isntalled yet ;) | 09:57 |
| Lennie | hehe | 09:57 |
| Lennie | grocery time :) | 10:11 |
| *** Lennie is now known as Lennie|Gone | 10:12 | |
| *** Lennie|Gone is now known as Lennie | 10:42 | |
| Lennie | gaat nog even genieten van het digitale filmkanaal voordat het proefabbonoment is afgelopen :P | 10:54 |
| *** Lennie is now known as Lennie|Gone | 10:54 | |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o solydzajs | 11:33 | |
| Lennie|Gone | SRabbelier | 11:51 |
| Lennie|Gone | ping | 11:51 |
| *** Lennie|Gone is now known as Lennie | 11:51 | |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: pong | 11:51 |
| Lennie | 20.00 also okay for you? solydzajs asks | 11:51 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I thought we had an appointment at 8pm already? | 11:51 |
| Lennie | and that was...? | 11:51 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: is that tomorrow? | 11:52 |
| Lennie | tes | 11:52 |
| Lennie | yes | 11:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: ah, ok, np then | 11:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: fine with me | 11:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: and where does solydzajs ask? | 11:52 |
| Lennie | tomorrow we have conf call | 11:52 |
| Lennie | GTalk | 11:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I thought we were having our conversations here ;) | 11:52 |
| Lennie | I pinged him becuase he was traveling home at the time I asked him to be here :) | 11:52 |
| Lennie | no conversations :P | 11:52 |
| Lennie | just a can you make it at this time | 11:52 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: :) ok | 11:53 |
| solydzajs | yep there was no conversation just one quick question | 12:00 |
| solydzajs | ok guys | 12:00 |
| solydzajs | I gonna take a shower and be back soonish | 12:00 |
| solydzajs | tts | 12:00 |
| *** Lennie is now known as Lennie|Gone | 12:20 | |
| solydzajs | Lennie|Gone: ping | 13:22 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ping | 13:22 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: pong? | 13:22 |
| solydzajs | ok I'm wondering if Lennie has time now too | 13:22 |
| solydzajs | cause I rescheduled few things | 13:22 |
| solydzajs | and have time now | 13:23 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: you have time ? | 13:23 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: sure | 13:23 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok but I guess Lennie is gone | 13:23 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: how are things ? what are you working on ? what do you think about roadmap update ? | 13:24 |
| Lennie|Gone | I have time but I'm not prepared | 13:24 |
| *** Lennie|Gone is now known as Lennie | 13:24 | |
| solydzajs | Lennie: ok that's fine | 13:24 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I'm working on school atm | 13:24 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: need to grade quite a few more students | 13:24 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok good, school is important | 13:24 |
| solydzajs | ok guys | 13:24 |
| Lennie | shall we have our talk now then? | 13:24 |
| solydzajs | so first of all | 13:24 |
| solydzajs | I updated roadmap a little bit | 13:25 |
| solydzajs | I put some more description for each item listed there | 13:25 |
| solydzajs | I will probably work on it a little bit more after our conference call tomorrow | 13:25 |
| solydzajs | but I think it's pretty much solid | 13:25 |
| Lennie | yeah I've received your email about that | 13:26 |
| Lennie | I still need to take a good look at it | 13:26 |
| solydzajs | ok sure thing | 13:26 |
| solydzajs | I'm going to clear my inbox from all the pending patch reviews and test Daniels patch, Madhudusan patch and all the other patches that I didn't look at yet | 13:26 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I agree with James that it's too extensive for a proper roadmap, it needs subdeviding in both time and priority dimensions | 13:26 |
| solydzajs | once I'm done with that | 13:26 |
| solydzajs | I'm going to focus on actually implementing tests and release script | 13:27 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: be my guest to help me with that | 13:27 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I don't have time | 13:27 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: what do you want to change ? add smaller tasks for each big task so it's not like 1 month long ? | 13:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: no, I mean, atm it's just one huge list of "things that need doing" | 13:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: it needs to be more prioritized I think, perhaps link to issues too | 13:29 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok I can link to some issues, the other thing that I'm going to do is for the upcoming 2 months I will move all the stuff that we are going to work on during that time and make it more precise what are the tasks and how long each task can take if the issues is in the issue tracker I can set the Due date in the issue, would that work ? | 13:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: yes, and add a line between things that are for these two months, and those that are "long term" | 13:31 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep ok | 13:31 |
| Lennie | something like milestones plix | 13:31 |
| solydzajs | ok | 13:31 |
| Lennie | you know that we are writing test the next month right? | 13:32 |
| solydzajs | I can add 0.6 milestone 0.7 milestone etc | 13:32 |
| Lennie | now that I'm done with co-mentors | 13:32 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: "solydzajs: I'm going to clear my inbox from all the pending patch reviews and test Daniels patch, Madhudusan patch and all the other patches that I didn't look at yet" | 13:32 |
| Lennie | I read that | 13:32 |
| solydzajs | yep | 13:32 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: what lennie means, is that we're not going ot work on any other things | 13:33 |
| solydzajs | I'm going to focus on actually implementing tests and release script after I'm done with those patches | 13:33 |
| solydzajs | sure I understand | 13:33 |
| Lennie | most of the patches are reviewed already pawel | 13:33 |
| solydzajs | but something might pop up for Cat, Ellen or Leslie | 13:33 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: I know, but I want to look at them anyway and I also need to test Maps support | 13:33 |
| Lennie | don't take upon you the task of reviewing them all if it takes you 2 weeks to even get to a point where you can review them | 13:33 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: dude this week was busy, don't even start | 13:34 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: Leave the review to us | 13:34 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: don't do double review | 13:34 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: you have little time as it is | 13:34 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: no I don't | 13:34 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: don't waste it on doing double work is what Lennie is saying | 13:35 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: I'm working only on Melange now | 13:35 |
| Lennie | Leslie knows what we are doing next month, she can cope with it accordingly | 13:35 |
| Lennie | it's only for the better | 13:35 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: cope with what? | 13:35 |
| Lennie | if really highprio stuff comes up ofcourse we'll do t | 13:35 |
| Lennie | cope with the fact that we are doing tests for a month | 13:36 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: aah, right :) | 13:36 |
| Lennie | it speaks for itself | 13:36 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: so you are busy with school till when ? | 13:36 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: End of semester :) | 13:36 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I'll have time to mentor for GSoC | 13:36 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: to write tests | 13:36 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but not for extra stuff | 13:37 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok, when is end of semester ? | 13:37 |
| Lennie | end of june | 13:37 |
| solydzajs | ok | 13:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: my internship at Google starts 22nd june | 13:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I reckon I'll be equally busy during my internship | 13:37 |
| Lennie | 20% time :P | 13:37 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: well I think during internship you will be even busier | 13:37 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: heh, you wish ;) | 13:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: probably, yes | 13:38 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: so perhaps I won't have time to work on Melange itself, only to mentor; we'll see when that time comes | 13:38 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok | 13:38 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: how about you ? | 13:38 |
| Lennie | that makes prioritizing even more important | 13:38 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: it does indeed | 13:38 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: atm my priority is writing tests, so that's easy ;) | 13:39 |
| Lennie | I'm equally busy till the end of semester with my "bachelor thesis" | 13:39 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: writing tests and helping our GSoC students to get up to speed that is | 13:39 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: (thesis? not proejct?) | 13:39 |
| Lennie | whatever you want to call it :p | 13:39 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: ok and after that ? | 13:39 |
| Lennie | some strange project with a polish guy on a mac? | 13:39 |
| Lennie | :P | 13:40 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: pffff, what about the dutch guy on a Lenovo? :P | 13:40 |
| Lennie | :D | 13:40 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: he might feel left out :( | 13:40 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 13:40 |
| Lennie | he has food | 13:40 |
| solydzajs | free Google food :D | 13:40 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: ah, true, he'll be happy then | 13:40 |
| Lennie | roflmao | 13:40 |
| Lennie | sooo true | 13:40 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: don't eat too much :-) | 13:40 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: Google 15 | 13:40 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: :D | 13:40 |
| solydzajs | ok guys | 13:41 |
| Lennie | I'll mostly be mentoring Madhu and Merio sooo :) | 13:41 |
| Lennie | but I'll write stuff for melange | 13:41 |
| Lennie | where needed | 13:41 |
| Lennie | after the test month that is | 13:41 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: exactly | 13:41 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: same here | 13:41 |
| solydzajs | statistics projects | 13:41 |
| solydzajs | lets talk about that | 13:41 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: we might have to extend the test month though | 13:41 |
| Lennie | but since resources are limited I would really love some prioritizing | 13:41 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: if it's not enough :) | 13:41 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: agreed, priority is key | 13:41 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier, I'd rather not do that we should focus on getting evaluations in | 13:41 |
| Lennie | and those should go hand in hand with new tests | 13:42 |
| solydzajs | Quizes/Surveys are really important | 13:42 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: hopefully we can depend on James Levy to do that... | 13:42 |
| Lennie | we can always scheldule another test run after some more GSoC stuff | 13:42 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: if he shows up xD | 13:42 |
| Lennie | can someone mail him?: | 13:42 |
| solydzajs | well I'm really worried about James Levy | 13:42 |
| Lennie | He didn't reply to the meeting mail yhet | 13:42 |
| solydzajs | we will mail him tomorrow | 13:42 |
| solydzajs | if he doesn't reply till then | 13:42 |
| solydzajs | ok so stats projects | 13:43 |
| Lennie | yosh | 13:44 |
| Lennie | solydzajs, did you work something out yet? | 13:44 |
| solydzajs | so both Merio and Daniel will be working on frontend and backend | 13:45 |
| solydzajs | I would like to give Merio Visualization API | 13:45 |
| solydzajs | and Daniel Chart API | 13:45 |
| solydzajs | then also divide which stats each of them will do so for example | 13:46 |
| solydzajs | Merio can work on Dashboard with Stats for Host | 13:46 |
| solydzajs | Daniel on Dashboard with Stats for Developer | 13:46 |
| solydzajs | and then we also have Dashboard for Org admin | 13:46 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: skip the stasts for devs | 13:47 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: have him work on dashboard for Org admin instead | 13:47 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: we can gather our own stats if we really want | 13:47 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: org admins and hosts can't | 13:47 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok we can do that | 13:47 |
| Lennie | are you making this up right now or did you write it down | 13:48 |
| Lennie | as in when can we give them a complete description | 13:48 |
| solydzajs | I have some notes on the paper here | 13:48 |
| solydzajs | but I can write it all down as email | 13:49 |
| solydzajs | with proper division and description | 13:49 |
| Lennie | question | 13:49 |
| solydzajs | and list of required stats that we need to have | 13:49 |
| Lennie | what's the difference between the two API's? | 13:49 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I thought we agreed you would do that a few days ago though, is that right? | 13:49 |
| Lennie | why are we dividing it that way? | 13:49 |
| Lennie | don't we need the dashboards to use both? | 13:50 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: no I said I will work on that when I finish working on roadmap | 13:50 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: and that's also why I scheduled the GSoC meeting for tuesday | 13:50 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I agree with your reasoning | 13:50 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: are you trying again to tell me that I'm not doing what I suppose to on time ? | 13:50 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I am saying what I remember we agreed. Stop being so defensive, it makes you look guilty. | 13:51 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: yes but dashboard is just a view, you can add many stats there | 13:51 |
| Lennie | true but still | 13:51 |
| Lennie | we don't want one dashboard to be without one API just because the division is that way | 13:51 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: if someone asks you if you know where the grocery store is and you tell them "are you accusing me of robbing that store?!", it makes you look suspicious | 13:52 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: so either don't rob the store, or don't react as if you have ;) | 13:52 |
| Lennie | fight this out after the meeting :P | 13:52 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: i don't care if that makes me look quilty I'm just tired of you what I suppose to do or not and when | 13:52 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: I'm equally busy as you are | 13:53 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but you said you're not busy anymore, that you're only working on Melange, so that doesn't make sense | 13:53 |
| Lennie | there is more to life then Melange :) | 13:53 |
| Lennie | back to Merio and Daniel | 13:53 |
| Lennie | they dont have to suffer because there is something to fight over here :) | 13:54 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: dude relax, I just got back from US if you haven't noticed :P | 13:54 |
| Lennie | solydzajs | 13:55 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ok, fair enough | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | from now on I'm going to write weekly reports of what I have been working on every week on Melange | 13:55 |
| Lennie | can the dashboard still use both API's? | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | including discussions | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | datastore fixes | 13:55 |
| solydzajs | and other stuff | 13:55 |
| Lennie | awesome :) | 13:56 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: sounds good | 13:56 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: hmmm, we don't want them to get in one another's way though | 13:56 |
| solydzajs | yes the dashboard will use both APIs | 13:56 |
| solydzajs | so ok we can divide it so that one is working on Host dashboard | 13:57 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier: if that would be the case then this split is not the right one | 13:57 |
| solydzajs | the other on Org Admin dashboard | 13:57 |
| solydzajs | and we just need to agree on data format of how we send data to both APIs | 13:57 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: do we also want to include things like "You need to create an org home page before ..." stuff in those dashboards? | 13:57 |
| solydzajs | so that they match | 13:57 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: yes, it feels like a rather artificial split to me, I am thinking the code is very similar for both API's | 13:58 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: we want but that's not part of their projects right ? | 13:58 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: that's James' I guess? | 13:58 |
| solydzajs | no it's not similar | 13:58 |
| Lennie | james is news feed not UI :P | 13:58 |
| solydzajs | one is Javascript | 13:58 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: mhhh, true | 13:58 |
| solydzajs | the other one is creation of URLs to generate Chart | 13:58 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: but that could be something that is included in the news feed? | 13:58 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ah, ok | 13:58 |
| Lennie | the dashboard stuff should be part of a larger UI discussion we should have in MTV | 13:59 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: maybe we will be able to use only Visualization API but not sure yet | 13:59 |
| Lennie | it would involve complete redesigning the way the site works externally right? | 13:59 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: hmmm, less cluttered sidebar etc? | 14:00 |
| solydzajs | if they get to the point that stats are generated then putting them on dashboard page or whatever page is not a problem | 14:00 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier perhaps no sidebar at all | 14:00 |
| solydzajs | so yes we can discuss it during the MTV meeting | 14:00 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: perhaps a springboard "I'm an org", "I'm a mentor", etc? | 14:00 |
| Lennie | that's something up for discussion and not something that we should force any of our students to do now :) | 14:00 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: so their main job will be working on extracting the stats, using Jobs? | 14:00 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: right, I agree there | 14:00 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier: visualization of the data is also important | 14:01 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: yes, of course | 14:01 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: Selecting the proper visualization, and what to show is vital | 14:01 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: depending on the stats using Jobs or fetching right away, so extracting data, and visualizing it in both table view and as charts, graphs etc | 14:02 |
| solydzajs | cause it's not just about Charts , graphs etc | 14:02 |
| solydzajs | it's also about pure data like for example list of students from different countries | 14:02 |
| Lennie | should we include report generation somehow? | 14:03 |
| solydzajs | right ? | 14:03 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: like, "show me all students from Poland"? | 14:03 |
| solydzajs | oh nope, more like how many students we have from different countries | 14:03 |
| solydzajs | sorry my mistake | 14:03 |
| solydzajs | not list but amount of students | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: so basically generating something similar to the documents you created for LH | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | site documents | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | popularity | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | etc | 14:04 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: that is something they'd need to gather with Jobs though | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | yep | 14:04 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: have a worker per country perhaps | 14:04 |
| solydzajs | this one with jobs I agree | 14:05 |
| solydzajs | and then save that data somewhere | 14:05 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: everything where they need to aggregate over all data needs to use Jobs | 14:05 |
| solydzajs | fetch on page request | 14:05 |
| solydzajs | show in list/table whatever | 14:05 |
| solydzajs | and also have an option to visualize it | 14:05 |
| solydzajs | using different graphs | 14:05 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: sounds good | 14:06 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yes in most cases that's correct, but there might be few cases when Jobs won't be needed, but I totally agree | 14:06 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: mhhh, I can't think of any where it's not needed, do you have an example in mind? | 14:06 |
| solydzajs | so what we will have to decide is the JSON format of how we are going to store all those stats in the datastore | 14:07 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: (also, we should be ready to dump our custom Job system once Google adds proper job support, planned for Google I/O I think?) | 14:07 |
| Lennie | shouldn't be that hard | 14:07 |
| Lennie | jobs is an iterative procedure | 14:07 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: agreed | 14:07 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: well we don't know what kind of API they will introduce | 14:07 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: but like Lennie said shouldn't be that hard | 14:08 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I'm suspecting something similar to what we're doing | 14:08 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep I think so yes | 14:08 |
| solydzajs | Ok so we will prepare the list of all required stats that they need to work on | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | for both Host | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | and Org admins | 14:09 |
| Lennie | hmm | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | they need to get familiar with both Visualization API and Chart API | 14:09 |
| Lennie | lets leave room for adding own stats | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | sure | 14:09 |
| Lennie | there were some good ideas in their proposals | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | I'm not saying no to that | 14:09 |
| solydzajs | I'm just saying what is "must have" | 14:09 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I agree that we should leave that mostly to the students, minus of course some required stats that we will need | 14:09 |
| Lennie | k | 14:10 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: right, agreed on that | 14:10 |
| solydzajs | ok cool | 14:10 |
| solydzajs | we will divide the dashboards based on Roles so one will work on Host the other on Org admin or the other way around | 14:10 |
| solydzajs | and we will have a discuss with them about usage of Jobs | 14:10 |
| solydzajs | caching if need be | 14:10 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: we need to cache a whole lot more than we are | 14:11 |
| solydzajs | and data format , model to store the stats in datastore | 14:11 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: we should probably have another month for optimizing Melange | 14:11 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: our performance sucks atm | 14:11 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep :/ | 14:11 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: especially during peek hours, we need to have everything cached that we can think of | 14:11 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: add it as To Discuss to the roadmap | 14:11 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: and we can talk about it tomorrow | 14:11 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ok thanks | 14:12 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: I made a note about it too , so I will mention it during the meeting tomorrow | 14:12 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier: I probably know what you are guessing at but I dont think I agree ^^ | 14:12 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: please do :) | 14:12 |
| solydzajs | ok guys so I will prepare a mail with division of the tasks | 14:12 |
| solydzajs | tomorrow | 14:12 |
| Lennie | we'll talk about it when it comes up | 14:12 |
| solydzajs | and send it to you for review | 14:12 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I know you don't, so we'll have to come up with osmething better | 14:13 |
| Lennie | solydzajs, you'd better :) | 14:13 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier awesome | 14:13 |
| Lennie | I love to read what they are going to do | 14:13 |
| Lennie | so both of them will be using both API's and writing python? | 14:13 |
| solydzajs | I will also have a look at their proposals again | 14:13 |
| solydzajs | and include stuff from their proposals in the email too | 14:13 |
| Lennie | They should both be able to suggest stats for the other's view btw | 14:13 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: yes | 14:13 |
| Lennie | I don't want to their creativity to be tempered | 14:14 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: sure they can, we will keep the communication really open | 14:14 |
| Lennie | k awesome | 14:14 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: I don't want this to be competition between them | 14:14 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: and I also don't think they are that kind of people | 14:14 |
| Lennie | solydzajs: mwah a little bit of competition is nice to keep them on their toes | 14:15 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: true :-) but not too much | 14:15 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: because otherwise they won't talk to each other | 14:15 |
| Lennie | yeah I get your drift | 14:15 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I agree we need to make sure they all communicate well | 14:15 |
| solydzajs | We also need to be sort of communication hub for all the students | 14:16 |
| solydzajs | and we need to communication hub for us too, to stay up to date with all the projects progres | 14:16 |
| solydzajs | progress | 14:16 |
| Lennie | mandatory blogging :P? | 14:16 |
| Lennie | weekly reports | 14:16 |
| Lennie | weekly meeting? | 14:16 |
| solydzajs | yep | 14:16 |
| solydzajs | all that will be required | 14:16 |
| Lennie | put that on tuesdays agenda? | 14:17 |
| solydzajs | I'm also going to start Melange blog | 14:17 |
| Lennie | if we have any | 14:17 |
| SRabbelier | I'm thinking daily reports :p | 14:17 |
| SRabbelier | required presence on #melange | 14:17 |
| Lennie | somebody has an agenda for Tuesday yet :P? | 14:18 |
| solydzajs | daily reports is not good | 14:18 |
| solydzajs | but presence on #melange is good | 14:18 |
| solydzajs | we can ask for 2 reports per week | 14:18 |
| solydzajs | but also if they will blog a lot there is not need for too much paper work | 14:18 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: well, maybe not daily reports, but daily communication at least | 14:18 |
| solydzajs | yep daily communication ok | 14:19 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I don't care about paper work, I want them to talk to us | 14:19 |
| Lennie | heck I want to talk to them | 14:19 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 14:19 |
| solydzajs | :D | 14:19 |
| Lennie | atleast the ones I have connections to | 14:19 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: nope no agenda yet, I will make something hopefully before conference call tomorrow | 14:19 |
| Lennie | solydzajs, k cool just write it on one of your notes :) | 14:19 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: yep just did :-) | 14:20 |
| Lennie | because I might be traveling during that meeting | 14:20 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: ok sure we will post the logs | 14:20 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: and summary | 14:20 |
| Lennie | IRC on andy :)? | 14:20 |
| Lennie | I can be there | 14:20 |
| Lennie | atleast I'll try | 14:20 |
| solydzajs | fIRC I guess :-) | 14:20 |
| solydzajs | ok | 14:20 |
| Lennie | indeed | 14:20 |
| solydzajs | so thanks for the chat | 14:20 |
| Lennie | hmm | 14:20 |
| Lennie | we have one more topic :P | 14:20 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: what about GHOP? | 14:21 |
| solydzajs | and I will work on this agenda, stats projects division email and all the stuff we discussed today | 14:21 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: what topic ? | 14:21 |
| Lennie | that topic | 14:21 |
| solydzajs | GHOP ? | 14:21 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier thought we were going to talk about that | 14:21 |
| solydzajs | nope we scheduled a meeting about Stats projects | 14:21 |
| Lennie | still doesn't mean we can't talk about it | 14:21 |
| Lennie | so | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | well I need to leave for 1h | 14:22 |
| Lennie | ok | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | so can we talk about it after tomorrow's conference call ? | 14:22 |
| Lennie | hehe | 14:22 |
| Lennie | I rather have dinner after that call :P | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | after the dinner ? | 14:22 |
| Lennie | sleep ^^ | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | well ok | 14:22 |
| Lennie | doesnt matter | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | then figure out what time works best for you | 14:22 |
| Lennie | we'll find a spot :P | 14:22 |
| solydzajs | ok tty later guys | 14:23 |
| solydzajs | thx for the chat | 14:23 |
| Lennie | one more thing | 14:23 |
| solydzajs | I made notes | 14:23 |
| Lennie | very brief | 14:23 |
| solydzajs | yes ? | 14:23 |
| Lennie | we should let our students get familiair with our code partly through writing tests right? | 14:23 |
| Lennie | and then we would like them to add tests to the stuff they do | 14:23 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: correct | 14:24 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: yes | 14:24 |
| solydzajs | any other questions ? | 14:24 |
| Lennie | one more | 14:24 |
| Lennie | then I'm done | 14:24 |
| solydzajs | ok bring it on quickly please | 14:24 |
| Lennie | Shall we have Madhu do some design (UML stuff) for datastore and different views before he starts coding? | 14:25 |
| Lennie | I like a good overview of the work to be done | 14:26 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: Yes, I think that's a good idea | 14:26 |
| Lennie | and we need to discuss the GHOP features tomorrow there might be something to add | 14:26 |
| Lennie | or atleast extend | 14:26 |
| solydzajs | yes we will ask for that, but not necessarly UML format | 14:26 |
| solydzajs | just some diagrams | 14:26 |
| solydzajs | with properties | 14:26 |
| solydzajs | and references | 14:26 |
| Lennie | that's UML :p | 14:26 |
| Lennie | anyhoo | 14:26 |
| Lennie | k cool | 14:26 |
| Lennie | you go now :) | 14:26 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: what Lennie said :P | 14:27 |
| Lennie | have fun solydzajs | 14:27 |
| Lennie | we'll discuss this more tomorrwo | 14:27 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: no it's not necesarrly UML | 14:27 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: no more meeting in 1h? | 14:27 |
| Lennie | SRabbelier: nah, lets keep it at this for today? | 14:27 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: ok, sure | 14:27 |
| Lennie | unless you are unhappy | 14:27 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: nope, I'm good :) | 14:28 |
| Lennie | cool | 14:28 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: UML is a standard, and I don't think there is a nice way to convert UML to GAE models | 14:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but there is | 14:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: we've been doing it all the time | 14:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: manual coding ;) | 14:28 |
| Lennie | :P | 14:29 |
| Lennie | solydzajs, lets leave it at their needs to be some graphical representation | 14:29 |
| Lennie | you go now | 14:29 |
| Lennie | have fun :) | 14:29 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: hehe :-) yep then there is no reason for using UML standard it can be just design diagrams in whatever tool | 14:29 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but our point is that most of such tools are in UML | 14:29 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but I agree that we don't need to require them to use UML, as long as it's not mspaint or something | 14:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: needs to be easily changeable | 14:30 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep agreed ok cool | 14:30 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: you wanted another meeting in 1h ? | 14:30 |
| solydzajs | "SRabbelier: Lennie: no more meeting in 1h?" ? | 14:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: no it's ok, we can do it another time :) | 14:30 |
| Lennie | if I'm still here we might discuss GHOP | 14:31 |
| Lennie | but I'm not up for planning a real meeting | 14:31 |
| Lennie | just ping me when you are back and we'll see | 14:31 |
| solydzajs | ok | 14:31 |
| Lennie | it can wait a day :) | 14:31 |
| solydzajs | cya later | 14:31 |
| Lennie | bye | 14:31 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ok, cya :) | 14:32 |
| solydzajs | ciao :-) | 14:32 |
| Lennie | the GHOP list really needs some prioritizing :P | 14:48 |
| Lennie | wtf is phone numbers doing in there | 14:48 |
| Lennie | :) | 14:48 |
| Lennie | <----- SRabbelier | 14:56 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: lol, no clue :P | 14:59 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: mind you, I just moved it from the Roadmap | 15:01 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I didn't change anything | 15:01 |
| Lennie | yes I know | 15:01 |
| Lennie | it has been on the ideas page too afaik | 15:01 |
| Lennie | but now that it got chosen we really need to prioritize that list a bit | 15:01 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: a bit? :P | 15:02 |
| Lennie | : | 15:02 |
| Lennie | P | 15:02 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: it's more like a braindump atm :P | 15:02 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: it needs to be turned into something useful :) | 15:02 |
| Lennie | true | 15:03 |
| Lennie | too bad I dont have time for that now | 15:09 |
| Lennie | grmbl | 15:09 |
| Lennie | busy full day tomorrow | 15:09 |
| Lennie | going to do the dishes | 15:09 |
| Lennie | brb | 15:09 |
| solydzajs | i'm back | 15:54 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: braindump ? | 15:54 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: wb | 15:54 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: yes, like, the result of a brainstorm session, does that make sense? | 15:55 |
| Lennie | yeah the list is an unordered bunch of stuff that needs to be done | 15:55 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: right, that's what I meant | 15:56 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: well then that was a brainstorm with my brain only I guess | 15:56 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: right, that's why I said braindump rather than brainstorm :) | 15:57 |
| solydzajs | If you guys want to convert it into something useful go a had :-) | 15:57 |
| solydzajs | it's useful for me | 15:57 |
| Lennie | roflmao | 15:58 |
| solydzajs | s/a had/ahead | 15:58 |
| Lennie | because you made it | 15:58 |
| Lennie | I bet it is not that usefull for others since there is no structure | 15:58 |
| Lennie | atleast not a clear one :) | 15:58 |
| Lennie | anyhow | 15:58 |
| Lennie | I'm reorganzing it atm | 15:58 |
| Lennie | atleast in a .doc file :P | 15:58 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: what kind of structure you want to introduce there ? | 15:58 |
| Lennie | you'll see | 15:58 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: ok cool | 15:59 |
| Lennie | atleast Word lets me move all bullet points arround freely | 15:59 |
| Lennie | alt+shift ftw | 15:59 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: hehe, yes, they got that part right | 15:59 |
| Lennie | :) | 15:59 |
| solydzajs | ok I'm back to work any questions ? | 16:00 |
| Lennie | yeah | 16:01 |
| Lennie | I read somewhere that students should be able to indicate progess? | 16:01 |
| Lennie | in GHOP | 16:01 |
| Lennie | wouldn't it be better to have the org define subtasks? | 16:02 |
| Lennie | and those automatically progress the % completed counter? | 16:02 |
| solydzajs | too much work for orgs | 16:03 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: sounds cute, but I agree with solydzajs that it's too much work | 16:03 |
| Lennie | hmm | 16:03 |
| solydzajs | usually orgs need to write about 100 tasks | 16:03 |
| Lennie | but a student that's able to set % sounds so useless :S | 16:03 |
| solydzajs | it's really time consuming | 16:03 |
| Lennie | the % has no meaning then | 16:04 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I agree that a % is useless | 16:04 |
| solydzajs | it has for mentors | 16:04 |
| solydzajs | we can get rid of that, it was a suggestion | 16:04 |
| solydzajs | because mentors wanted to get an idea what's the status of the task | 16:04 |
| Lennie | how can it have a meaning if students can just set it to anything they want>? | 16:04 |
| Lennie | that's why I opt for subtasks | 16:04 |
| Lennie | which would make it more clear | 16:04 |
| Lennie | but not everything can be made into subtasks | 16:05 |
| solydzajs | well you try to trust your students right ? and you expect them to update progress | 16:05 |
| Lennie | perhaps | 16:06 |
| solydzajs | they don't have to but if they do it's a nice information for mentors | 16:06 |
| solydzajs | that student is making progress | 16:06 |
| Lennie | but you know as well as I do that users are not that willing to do stuff | 16:06 |
| solydzajs | and he can of course submit partial patches on the way if need be | 16:06 |
| solydzajs | Like I said it was an idea for consideration and I like it, might be used doesn't have to be used but I think for some it's useful | 16:07 |
| solydzajs | you can of course always ignore it | 16:07 |
| solydzajs | and set 100% when you are done | 16:07 |
| Lennie | k | 16:07 |
| solydzajs | any other questions ? | 16:07 |
| Lennie | they shouldn't feel obligated to set it then | 16:07 |
| Lennie | since the meaning is unclear :P | 16:07 |
| solydzajs | go talk to GHOP mentors from last year and figure out what they want :-) | 16:09 |
| solydzajs | I'm ok if this feature is not implemented | 16:10 |
| solydzajs | I just wanted to help mentors | 16:10 |
| solydzajs | any other questions ? | 16:10 |
| Lennie | I'm not saying we shouldn't | 16:11 |
| Lennie | I'm just thinking about the consequences :) | 16:11 |
| Lennie | is there a GHOP mentors list? | 16:11 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: how about if we let the students define the subtasks | 16:11 |
| solydzajs | guys you really want to make GHOP too complicated | 16:12 |
| solydzajs | go have a look at last year tasks | 16:12 |
| solydzajs | and try to divide them into subtasks | 16:12 |
| Lennie | that's why I suggested org subtasks, to take someone by the hadn of what needs to be done :P | 16:12 |
| solydzajs | that's waste of time in most cases | 16:12 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I don't want to make it too complicated | 16:13 |
| solydzajs | and students want to make as much tasks as they can | 16:13 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I just doubt a % is useful | 16:13 |
| solydzajs | they don't want to waste time writing subtasks | 16:14 |
| solydzajs | it's not GSoC | 16:14 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: it can be one-liners | 16:14 |
| solydzajs | Ok have a look at last year tasks and let me know if still think subtasks would be useful | 16:15 |
| solydzajs | I don't | 16:15 |
| solydzajs | if you do, discuss it with LH if this is something she wants | 16:15 |
| Lennie | it's not something you'd have to define | 16:16 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: have you read GHOP faq ? how much are you familiar with GHOP workflow ? | 16:16 |
| Lennie | sure I have | 16:19 |
| Lennie | but the program only ran once | 16:19 |
| Lennie | that doesn't mean it is set in stone | 16:19 |
| Lennie | and it certainly doesnt mean we can't think about ways to improve it | 16:19 |
| solydzajs | well sure we actually should think about ways to improve it :-) | 16:20 |
| Lennie | and if you feel you are the only expert in that area you can go and do it all by yourself | 16:20 |
| solydzajs | that's why GHOP support is going to be implemented in Melange;-) | 16:20 |
| solydzajs | but like I said I don't find subtasks an improvement | 16:20 |
| solydzajs | if you guys do please bring it on during the conference call and discuss it with LH | 16:20 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: oh ok it seems you have a problem with me too. good to know. | 16:21 |
| solydzajs | LH is an GHOP expert not me | 16:21 |
| Lennie | heck I have even read the FAQ so well that I see you missed something important | 16:22 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: you want to mentor Madhudusan ? | 16:22 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: as main mentor ? | 16:22 |
| Lennie | nope | 16:22 |
| Lennie | I dont have the time for it and I still have Merio :0 | 16:23 |
| solydzajs | why ? I thought you wanted to | 16:23 |
| solydzajs | I can take over Merio | 16:23 |
| Lennie | nope | 16:23 |
| Lennie | I still feel that you know what GHOP should be like | 16:23 |
| Lennie | but I dont like that fact that apparently you think I did not do my homework | 16:24 |
| solydzajs | I don't think you didn't I was just asking if you did read FAQ and how much you know about the workflow | 16:24 |
| solydzajs | because I didn't know that | 16:24 |
| solydzajs | and you made it sound like it's offensive | 16:25 |
| Lennie | the way the question was formulated states otherwise | 16:25 |
| solydzajs | and it was just a question | 16:25 |
| Lennie | anyhow | 16:25 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: c'mon man, you read more into my statements all the time, and now you're saying that Lennie is doing just that? | 16:25 |
| Lennie | I'm seeing no mention of timeframes in which a task must be completed in the GHOP wiki | 16:26 |
| solydzajs | "solydzajs: Lennie: have you read GHOP faq ? how much are you familiar with GHOP workflow ?" ? | 16:26 |
| solydzajs | what's wrong with this question ? | 16:26 |
| Lennie | it's the context in which this question was placed that makes it wrong | 16:27 |
| solydzajs | eh | 16:28 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: the same as is wrong with me asking about whether you'd be done with the planning for stats or not | 16:28 |
| solydzajs | ok nvm lets just drop it | 16:28 |
| Lennie | anyhow | 16:28 |
| Lennie | I'm seeing no mention of timeframes in which a task must be completed in the GHOP wiki | 16:28 |
| Lennie | are we still doing this? | 16:28 |
| solydzajs | there is no timeframes | 16:29 |
| * Lennie visits the FAQ | 16:29 | |
| solydzajs | but if the task is not finished for some time | 16:29 |
| solydzajs | mentors can reopen it | 16:29 |
| Lennie | Start working! Each task has an allotted time frame for completion, so make sure to submit your entry in a timely fashion. | 16:29 |
| solydzajs | it depends on the task | 16:30 |
| Lennie | do you want to have repeatable tasks then? | 16:30 |
| Lennie | which can be claimed by multiple students | 16:30 |
| solydzajs | some of the tasks can have Due date | 16:30 |
| Lennie | or which can be repeated after one students completes them | 16:30 |
| Lennie | will Melange enforece the due dates in anyway? | 16:30 |
| solydzajs | nope it's more like if the first students doesn't finish it in time then this task can be reopened | 16:31 |
| solydzajs | http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-psf/issues/list?can=1&q=&colspec=ID+Status+ClaimedBy+Due+NeedsReview+Summary&x=status&y=claimedby&cells=tiles | 16:31 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/3+XR> (at code.google.com) | 16:31 |
| solydzajs | I don't think it should | 16:31 |
| solydzajs | but it's up to LH | 16:31 |
| solydzajs | there migh be an optional feature to create tasks that have some deadline starting from the time you claim it | 16:33 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: any other things to discuss ? | 16:34 |
| Lennie | the FAQ defineatly needs editing then | 16:35 |
| Lennie | definitely* | 16:35 |
| Lennie | it says ALL tasks have an allotted timeframe | 16:35 |
| solydzajs | well I guess we need to talk with LH about that | 16:36 |
| solydzajs | btw we have logging on #melangedev now | 16:36 |
| Lennie | I know | 16:37 |
| solydzajs | but I wonder where #melange loggin disappeared ? | 16:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logd/%23melangedev.2009-04-26.log.html | 16:37 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/3+XW> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 16:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: oh, melange logging? | 16:37 |
| SRabbelier | we're logm I think | 16:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logm/ | 16:37 |
| tpb | Title: IRC logs (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 16:37 |
| solydzajs | oh ok cool | 16:37 |
| solydzajs | right | 16:37 |
| solydzajs | so similar urls I got confused :-) | 16:37 |
| solydzajs | Lennie: SRabbelier: do we want to discuss anything else today ? or we will continue tomorrow ? | 16:43 |
| Lennie | I have no idea what comes up :0 | 16:43 |
| Lennie | I'm reorganizing the list of stuff on the GHOP page | 16:43 |
| Lennie | but I will not finish that today because I'm going to bed soon | 16:43 |
| Lennie | gotta get up at 06.00 | 16:43 |
| solydzajs | ok | 16:45 |
| Lennie | I'll work on that document tomorrow | 16:47 |
| Lennie | it needs some ironing out and splitting some of the bullet points | 16:47 |
| Lennie | *Lennie now wishes he still had the MSI Wind so he could do that in the train* | 16:47 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: that would be very nice :) | 16:48 |
| *** lh has quit IRC | 17:01 | |
| *** lh has joined #melangedev | 17:02 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o lh | 17:02 | |
| lh | ooo we haz logs! | 17:02 |
| lh | hi everyone | 17:02 |
| SRabbelier | lh: heya :) | 17:02 |
| lh | solydzajs: ping. the roadmap looks awesome dude. | 17:02 |
| lh | Lennie: ping. what do you mean you are revising the ghop doc? i also want to make comments to it. | 17:02 |
| solydzajs | lh: hello :-) thanks it still needs so fixing | 17:03 |
| lh | btw, if you emailed me like yesterday til now i havent seen it unless it was to google group | 17:03 |
| solydzajs | lh: he is making it more structured , divide long bullet point into smaller ones etc :-) reogranizing :-) | 17:03 |
| lh | i know when i open my inbox, i am never leaving. i got shit to do. :) | 17:03 |
| lh | solydzajs: oh cool, sounds awesome. | 17:03 |
| Lennie | feel free to comment but stuff might change soon | 17:03 |
| solydzajs | lh: busy busy as always :-) how was your day ? | 17:03 |
| lh | i had a lot of comments on the roadmap but i really like it | 17:03 |
| lh | Lennie: cool | 17:04 |
| lh | solydzajs: awesome. penguin day was great. i tweeted muchly about it | 17:04 |
| SRabbelier | lh: cool, glad you had fun :) | 17:04 |
| Lennie | yeah my facebook was full of tweets :P | 17:04 |
| solydzajs | lh: yep I saw you were tweeting like crazy ;-) | 17:04 |
| Lennie | from you | 17:04 |
| lh | then went to bar, had jello shots, spent evening in lovely hotel room in sf with my friends james and james the gay engineers from sydney | 17:04 |
| solydzajs | lh: where are you going to post your comments to the roadmap ? | 17:04 |
| lh | and now they are chilling on their laptops and i am getting melange stuff done | 17:05 |
| lh | solydzajs: posted | 17:05 |
| lh | i am procrastinating over issue triage :) | 17:05 |
| solydzajs | lh: ok great | 17:05 |
| lh | i admit it | 17:05 |
| lh | i am a bad person | 17:05 |
| lh | will get to that later | 17:05 |
| lh | i *hate* our issue tracker. with the fiery passions of hell. | 17:05 |
| lh | you know the thought occurs that maybe i dont want to discuss my personal business in a publicly logged channel | 17:06 |
| lh | hrm | 17:06 |
| lh | whatever | 17:06 |
| lh | so the interview i had on friday evening went well, and i am going to have a bit more help | 17:06 |
| solydzajs | lh: yep we have logs now on #melangedev | 17:06 |
| lh | was a good use of time | 17:06 |
| SRabbelier | lh: why do you have the issue tracker so badly? | 17:06 |
| solydzajs | lh: so watch out ;-) | 17:06 |
| SRabbelier | lh: heh, this channel already had it's fair share of publically logged privacy :P | 17:06 |
| solydzajs | so you all at #melangedev-prv in a minute ?:D | 17:06 |
| solydzajs | hehe | 17:07 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 17:07 |
| lh | solydzajs: i dont mind if people know i had jello shots. i was more worried since i was talking about my friends sexual preferences. but they are both out so it is ok/ | 17:07 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 17:07 |
| lh | SRabbelier: what do you mean about publically logged privacy? | 17:07 |
| lh | i love logs | 17:07 |
| lh | all hail logs | 17:07 |
| lh | so the ghop document | 17:07 |
| lh | since this is *so* much more fun than touching issues | 17:07 |
| SRabbelier | lh: like http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logd/%23melangedev.2009-04-26.log.html#t2009-04-26T16:21:48 :P | 17:08 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/3+Xu> (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 17:08 |
| lh | SRabbelier: i hate the issue tracker for reasons mentioned here: http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc-dev/browse_thread/thread/0f37f793ea10dd25# | 17:08 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/3+Xv> (at groups.google.com) | 17:08 |
| SRabbelier | lh: *reads* | 17:08 |
| lh | and for other reasons | 17:08 |
| lh | oooo logs | 17:08 |
| lh | i <3 logs | 17:08 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I know it's possible to make the wiki publically editable | 17:08 |
| SRabbelier | lh: the chromium guys have it | 17:08 |
| SRabbelier | lh: maybe you can use your site admin magic to fix it for Melange too ;) | 17:09 |
| lh | SRabbelier: chromium doesn't use the code.google.com wiki afaik does it? link please? | 17:09 |
| * lh reads logs | 17:09 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/UsingGit | 17:09 |
| * lh also wants a pony | 17:09 | |
| tpb | Title: UsingGit - chromium - Using Git to work on Chromium - Google Code (at code.google.com) | 17:09 |
| SRabbelier | lh: that's me as last person to have modified that page, and I am sure as hell no member of the Chromium project :P | 17:10 |
| lh | i am so excited. | 17:10 |
| lh | how is this accomplished | 17:10 |
| SRabbelier | lh: if I am, I want my [email protected] account :P | 17:10 |
| * lh wonders if there is a button | 17:10 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: go lookey | 17:10 |
| * lh goes to look | 17:10 | |
| * lh haz site admin access | 17:10 | |
| lh | bwahahahhahahahaha | 17:10 |
| SRabbelier | lh: oh dear, we're fscked now | 17:11 |
| lh | hey thought we should start a melange gsocer blog and make the link for this project not the google open source blog. this is a community project. also makes the kidz blog | 17:11 |
| lh | like see ellen is a project member so we can cc her on stuff | 17:11 |
| lh | wtf | 17:11 |
| SRabbelier | lh: that's an awesome idea :) | 17:11 |
| lh | she has committ access | 17:11 |
| SRabbelier | lh: yes, she does :P | 17:11 |
| lh | our gsoc students dont | 17:11 |
| Lennie | not yet | 17:11 |
| Lennie | I'm off | 17:11 |
| lh | this is the worst tool in the history of time | 17:12 |
| Lennie | gotta get up in 7h | 17:12 |
| Lennie | ttyl | 17:12 |
| lh | Lennie: night sleep well thank you | 17:12 |
| solydzajs | lh: I just talked about Melange blog today with Sverre and Lennie | 17:12 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool! | 17:12 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: we did? | 17:12 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: you mean the how often we want status updates? | 17:12 |
| * SRabbelier is confused | 17:12 | |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep I mentioned that I'm going to create Melange blog too | 17:12 |
| *** Lennie has quit IRC | 17:12 | |
| lh | allow non members to review code | 17:13 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: so we can post project updates, GSoC updates, etc | 17:13 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: oh, I missed that part | 17:13 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: good that we have logs now :-) | 17:13 |
| lh | i dont see anything to allow non members to edit wiki i will figure it out | 17:13 |
| solydzajs | I don't see it either ;-) | 17:14 |
| solydzajs | we can ask danderson | 17:14 |
| solydzajs | he is code.google.com admin | 17:14 |
| lh | solydzajs: go for it! | 17:14 |
| * lh thinks we should invite danderson here | 17:15 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: he's on the auth list already | 17:15 |
| lh | oooo | 17:15 |
| * lh thinks we should make him idle in here | 17:15 | |
| lh | with cookies | 17:15 |
| * lh reads logs | 17:18 | |
| lh | when did we start having logs? | 17:18 |
| solydzajs | today | 17:18 |
| lh | gaat nog even genieten van het digitale filmkanaal voordat het proefabbonoment is afgelopen :P | 17:18 |
| lh | SRabbelier: translation please | 17:19 |
| SRabbelier | lh: he said he's going to enjoy the digital movie channel before his trial is over | 17:19 |
| solydzajs | I asked Tim for that remember ?;-) | 17:19 |
| lh | solydzajs: i know you did, that's awesome. when was the first logged conversation? today? i wasn't on yesterday. | 17:19 |
| * lh wants to catch up on saturday too if it's possible, reads thru sunday now | 17:20 | |
| solydzajs | lh: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logd/ | 17:20 |
| tpb | Title: IRC logs (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 17:20 |
| lh | solydzajs: awesome! | 17:20 |
| solydzajs | lh: it's just Sunday | 17:20 |
| * lh reads | 17:20 | |
| lh | oh, cool already reading sunday | 17:20 |
| *** lh changes topic to "Channel is Accessible to Melange Developers Only - Public Logs at http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/logd/" | 17:21 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: nothing was said yesterday :) | 17:21 |
| lh | SRabbelier: even better. nothing to read. | 17:22 |
| SRabbelier | lh: exactly | 17:22 |
| solydzajs | lh: btw I think that blogger labels with whitespaces are now fixed | 17:22 |
| * lh agrees that roadmap needs to be more granular than it is now, we should talk about how to make that happen tomorrow | 17:22 | |
| lh | and yes there should be links to issues, which is why i think we need task owners. no need to have one person burdened with trawling the tracker to find related issues | 17:23 |
| lh | otoh, if people dont have time, i am trawling through the tracker and can update with relevant issues | 17:23 |
| lh | and oh how we need to get random people allowed to use the wiki like chromium is | 17:23 |
| * lh adds this to her to do list | 17:23 | |
| lh | lennie did co-mentors. sweet! | 17:24 |
| SRabbelier | lh: yes he did :) | 17:24 |
| SRabbelier | lh: his first commits using hg :D | 17:24 |
| lh | i am ecstatic | 17:25 |
| lh | solydzajs: ping | 17:25 |
| lh | actually nm, brb bio break | 17:25 |
| solydzajs | lh: pong :-) | 17:26 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I think it's cute that the wiki auto-highlights your <lh> and </lh> tags :P | 17:27 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: it's hard coded in code.google.com :-) you didn't know ?;-) | 17:27 |
| lh | solydzajs: i actually agree with sverre and lennie about not double reviewing patches. did they release the joel spolsky tech talk on youtube yet? he talked on thursday | 17:27 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: lol :P | 17:27 |
| lh | joel spolsky has his whole if you break the build you babysit the build principle | 17:28 |
| lh | while it would *suck* for the gsoc site to go down, we had outages on the old site frequently (view announce list archives) and frankly this is a young open source project so people can deal with it if we have bumps | 17:28 |
| SRabbelier | lh: that's why we're going to spend a month on testing ^_^ | 17:29 |
| solydzajs | lh: but there are some patches that I was asked to review, I'm not talking about the ones that Lennie and Sverre already reviewed, but for example one from Daniel Hans (Issue 389) | 17:29 |
| lh | if everyone agrees that if a patch you submit breaks the build then you babysit the build (and we all mock you copiously in here) | 17:29 |
| lh | then we dont need to double review patches. | 17:29 |
| SRabbelier | lh: and now that we're not in fire fighting mode, we can actually follow the Release Document I wrote and do proper testing of each release :P | 17:29 |
| solydzajs | and I was also asked to test Google Maps support on Orgs pages so I want to do it too | 17:29 |
| lh | solydzajs: ah that's cool. it's just double reviewing patches is mentioned here and i saw that a couple of times in the tracker and could not figure out why we were doing double duty | 17:29 |
| solydzajs | and I will probably end up review this code anyway | 17:29 |
| lh | SRabbelier: all hail testing and proper release procedures | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but I already reviewed his patch | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ah no wait | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: different one :) | 17:30 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: you see :-) | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: why didn't you just agree with us then? | 17:30 |
| lh | solydzajs: it's cool if the site breaks between now and midterm evaluations. it's incredibly sucky, but at some time it's going to happen. it's ok. | 17:31 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: saying that you dont' want to do double patch reviews? :P | 17:31 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: wouldof saved us all a headache | 17:31 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: we didn't discuss double patch reviews later if I remember | 17:31 |
| lh | SRabbelier: if you are living with me during your internship you will have plenty of time. all i do is work. you will learn the ways of silicon valley young padouin | 17:31 |
| SRabbelier | lh: *chuckles*, I could use some teachings in being productive ;) | 17:32 |
| lh | no. shit. | 17:32 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I will gladly accept your traiining o master jedi :P | 17:32 |
| * lh makes note to be better about her pottymouth in publicly logged channel | 17:32 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: hhehe | 17:32 |
| lh | solydzajs: there was a discussion of not double reviewing patches in the logs tho. | 17:33 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 17:33 |
| lh | i can bug james levy if you want | 17:33 |
| lh | bugging other people's gsoc students anyway | 17:33 |
| lh | when they dont turn up | 17:33 |
| solydzajs | lh: yes there was but I didn't continue that discussion we changed topic really quickly I think | 17:33 |
| lh | want me to? | 17:34 |
| solydzajs | we will mail him tomorrow | 17:34 |
| solydzajs | if he doesn't reply | 17:34 |
| lh | solydzajs: i think it's worth discussing. i can add it to tomorrow's conference call agenda | 17:34 |
| solydzajs | and then we will let you bug him | 17:34 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool. | 17:34 |
| solydzajs | if he doesn't reply to second email | 17:34 |
| lh | solydzajs: k | 17:34 |
| solydzajs | lh: yep we discussed it in NYC already and I agreed I will allow people to fail :-) | 17:34 |
| lh | solydzajs: good. | 17:36 |
| lh | what is all this arguing about proper descriptions and apis about? | 17:36 |
| solydzajs | it's about Statistics GSoC projects | 17:37 |
| lh | guys, if we were all acting with proper respect towards one another, i wouldn't feel embarrassed about sending a link to this chat log to our students so we didn't have to write yet another email about what needs to be done. | 17:37 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: they fixed the diff support for hg :-) | 17:37 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: on code.google.com | 17:37 |
| lh | what is the resolution to how to divide up the work between daniel and merio and where is it documented besides here? | 17:37 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: ah, that's good | 17:38 |
| lh | *ahem* | 17:38 |
| lh | ^^ | 17:38 |
| * lh continues reading logs | 17:38 | |
| solydzajs | lh: it's not documented anywhere yet, as we mentioned in the logs, I'm going to work on that tomorrow and Tuesday and send it out to them before GSoC IRC meeting on #melange | 17:38 |
| solydzajs | lh: I will prepare an email to Daniel and Merio to let them know what's he divide up for the Stats project | 17:39 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: any ideas how we should handle branches and releases using hg ? | 17:40 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I agree with what Augie said, we should do it the Hg way | 17:40 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: no /trunk /branches /tags stuff | 17:40 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: that's now how we do it in the DCVS world | 17:40 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: Hg uses a .tags file | 17:40 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok so we are going to tag using "hg tag" that's ok | 17:40 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: .hgtags yes :-) | 17:41 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: right, that's what I meant | 17:41 |
| lh | solydzajs: please send it to the list. daniel and mario are being mentored by lennie and sverre so everyone needs to be able to comment on the implementation details. | 17:41 |
| lh | solydzajs: hrm. or maybe on the wiki? | 17:41 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok what about branches ? what if I have release 1.3 and want to cherry pick ? | 17:41 |
| solydzajs | lh: yes I will CC the list | 17:41 |
| lh | solydzajs: can't we just depend on them to be subscribed to the lists? | 17:42 |
| * lh thinks we need to enforce good mailing list hygiene with our students | 17:42 | |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: afaik Hg has branching similar to git | 17:42 |
| lh | and we have access to the member lists, we should know if they are on them | 17:42 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: but not sure there, you should ask augie | 17:42 |
| solydzajs | lh: yes we can but sometimes people look first at the mails that are directed to them, for example GMail shows those mails with ">>" | 17:42 |
| lh | solydzajs: that's bad practice for this project. | 17:42 |
| lh | good list hygiene | 17:43 |
| lh | if i need to put my money where my mouth is and *not* filter out all the gsoc issues emails then i will | 17:43 |
| solydzajs | well the only student that is not on the list or is not active at all is James Levy | 17:43 |
| solydzajs | Merio, Daniel and Madhudusan are all subscribed already | 17:43 |
| lh | solydzajs: then why not send a more welcoming email specing out all the projects for all the students on the list and asking for their comments? | 17:43 |
| lh | including to james | 17:43 |
| lh | then when you ping him you can direct him to the list archives? | 17:44 |
| solydzajs | sure can do that np | 17:44 |
| lh | and i am asking, would people feel better about always using the lists if i set my email to pop up issue emails | 17:44 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool. :) | 17:44 |
| solydzajs | ;-) | 17:44 |
| * lh goes back to reading the logs | 17:44 | |
| lh | i think i am putting of ghop doc review for tomorrow | 17:45 |
| lh | solydzajs: can you get out that email before the student meeting on tuesday? gives them something to think about and talk about on the call instead of being shy. | 17:45 |
| lh | not all geeks are social. | 17:45 |
| lh | :) | 17:45 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok what does it mean that it's similar to git, so I can create a v1.3 branch and push it and if something will clone the repo he will be able to switch to v1.3 branch ? | 17:45 |
| solydzajs | lh: yes I think I can, I will try at least :-) Another email on my TODO list for tomorrow ;-) | 17:46 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: that's how it works in git, but I'm not sure, augie was saying it's uncommon to have multiple heads, so it's best if you ask him | 17:46 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool. | 17:46 |
| solydzajs | lh: Merio, Daniel and Madhudusan are all social :-) | 17:46 |
| solydzajs | lh: just not sure about James | 17:46 |
| solydzajs | lh: :-) | 17:46 |
| lh | solydzajs: still, it's a good way to make sure meetings go well. people need to have time to give their input or teams don't function well. | 17:47 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok | 17:47 |
| lh | people feel like they are not being heard | 17:47 |
| solydzajs | lh: sure will do, I'm working also on Tuesday meeting agenda | 17:47 |
| lh | i am not sure how much we can make our performance improve - is it our architecture or our servers that make us sluggish? this was mentioned in an issue by blackfingolfin. i can dig it up if it is useful. | 17:48 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool. look forward to taking a look at it on the wiki. | 17:48 |
| lh | and yes goodness me the site is slow. | 17:49 |
| SRabbelier | lh: we need to cache more stuff, but we also should do profiling to find out what is taking so long | 17:49 |
| SRabbelier | lh: me and Lennie suspect we're doing a whole bunch of queries multiple times | 17:49 |
| lh | interesting. ok. | 17:49 |
| SRabbelier | lh: we should instead make sure we retrieve data at most once per request | 17:49 |
| SRabbelier | lh: but profiling is a time-taking business, hence the 'month' | 17:49 |
| lh | yeah i hear you. noted. | 17:50 |
| lh | good lord. | 17:50 |
| lh | so much to do. | 17:50 |
| * SRabbelier seconds that | 17:50 | |
| lh | i think we should invite the kids to this channel to. | 17:50 |
| solydzajs | lh: well then what we are going to use #melange for ? | 17:50 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: user support right? | 17:51 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: well ok, but I think it will get to crowdy and too noisy here | 17:51 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: #melangedev is for dev talk, #melange is for people with questions about Melange, and for people to get in contat with us | 17:51 |
| lh | solydzajs: if we can't pay attention to what goes on in there to the point that we need a private distraction free channel, why should we expect them to? | 17:51 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I doubt it | 17:51 |
| lh | they are developing right | 17:51 |
| lh | SRabbelier: what phone numbers were in the roadmap? | 17:52 |
| solydzajs | lh: in the GHOP tasks | 17:52 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: Lennie was referring to http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/GHOP | 17:53 |
| tpb | Title: GHOP - soc - This page contains a list of what needs to be done for GHOP - Google Code (at code.google.com) | 17:53 |
| lh | solydzajs: whose phone numbers? | 17:53 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: Parsing phone numbers in user profiles, acceptable formats: +1.650.214.8031, 16502148031, 1-650-214-8031, 1 (650) 214-8031, 1 (650) 214 8031, 1 650 214 8031 | 17:53 |
| SRabbelier | err | 17:53 |
| lh | we do need their phone numbers or we cannot ship tshirts | 17:53 |
| SRabbelier | lh: ^^^^ | 17:53 |
| solydzajs | "Parsing phone numbers in user profiles, acceptable formats: +1.650.214.8031, 16502148031, 1-650-214-8031, 1 (650) 214-8031, 1 (650) 214 8031, 1 650 214 8031" | 17:53 |
| lh | SRabbelier: you said you removed phone numbers from the roadmap. i am confused. | 17:54 |
| lh | and of course i am not so sexy as to be able to check out wiki diffs from svn | 17:54 |
| lh | grumble | 17:54 |
| solydzajs | lh: GHOP tasks were in the roadmap before | 17:54 |
| solydzajs | lh: but they were moved to separate wiki page | 17:54 |
| lh | solydzajs: ah, got it. that's great | 17:54 |
| SRabbelier | lh: right, whole of http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/GHOP was in the roadmap, and I moved it to it's current location | 17:55 |
| tpb | Title: GHOP - soc - This page contains a list of what needs to be done for GHOP - Google Code (at code.google.com) | 17:55 |
| solydzajs | lh: ok so jsut talked with danderson | 17:55 |
| lh | solydzajs: cool, bout what? i forgot | 17:55 |
| solydzajs | lh: he can enable wiki edits for all users who have gmail account | 17:55 |
| solydzajs | lh: but it's for all wiki pages within project | 17:56 |
| solydzajs | lh: do we want that ? | 17:56 |
| lh | solydzajs: hell yes. | 17:56 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I think that's ok, we can revert changes through svn still I think? | 17:56 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yep | 17:56 |
| lh | do it. | 17:56 |
| lh | i need to spend some time with my friends today guys. they are in town from australia. | 17:56 |
| SRabbelier | lh: ok, awesome, go for it | 17:56 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I should be off to bed anyway | 17:57 |
| lh | the statuses in ghop are there for a reason we should talk about this as a group | 17:57 |
| lh | SRabbelier: night | 17:58 |
| lh | solydzajs: pm? | 17:58 |
| solydzajs | lh: ok danderson will try to enable it but he needs to check for engineering issues with the google code eng team | 17:58 |
| lh | solydzajs: awesome. so very very awesome. | 17:59 |
| lh | and yet again we need special interference to do something that i think everyone should be able to do. sigh. | 17:59 |
| solydzajs | lh: he will email me about the progress | 17:59 |
| lh | solydzajs: can he just email the list or is that not kosher? | 17:59 |
| * lh is not sure what will be discussed with code eng team | 17:59 | |
| solydzajs | lh: no idea he can probably do that or I will forward the email when I get it | 18:00 |
| lh | solydzajs: list hygiene. | 18:00 |
| lh | list hygiene | 18:00 |
| * lh advocates list hygiene | 18:00 | |
| lh | if we want this to be a real open source project, this affects everyone. | 18:01 |
| lh | i sure want it to be real. | 18:01 |
| SRabbelier | lh: +1 | 18:01 |
| * SRabbelier runs off | 18:01 | |
| lh | SRabbelier: i thought you were going to bed | 18:02 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I am in the process :P | 18:02 |
| SRabbelier | lh: brushing teeth :P | 18:02 |
| lh | SRabbelier: go to bed dude. | 18:02 |
| lh | lol. | 18:02 |
| * SRabbelier snickers | 18:02 | |
| lh | i also talk on irc while brushing teeth | 18:02 |
| SRabbelier | lh: surely you wouldn't want me to take care of my personal higiene? :P | 18:02 |
| SRabbelier | lh: how can you expect list hygiene when we do not care of our own!! :P | 18:02 |
| lh | SRabbelier: oh shut up. | 18:03 |
| * SRabbelier giggles | 18:03 | |
| * lh wanders off grumbling about practicing what she preaches and now she has to brush her teeth effectively or her list hygiene comments are compromised | 18:03 | |
| SRabbelier | lolololol | 18:04 |
| * lh raises middle finger | 18:06 | |
| SRabbelier | lh: tsk tsk, mind your language, this is a publically logged channel! | 18:07 |
| * SRabbelier snickers | 18:07 | |
| SRabbelier | anyway, I'm ready for bed, so I'm truly off now :P | 18:07 |
| lh | SRabbelier: it wasn't language it was a gesture. night. | 18:08 |
| SRabbelier | :P | 18:08 |
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