Saturday, 2014-03-22

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jasvirmadrazr: hi.03:21
jasvirmadrazr: why we are not updating our text editor at melange?03:22
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madrazrjasvir: that is a quick curious question? Or do you plan to have a discussion around that?03:24
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madrazrfor latter you will have to wait03:25
madrazrI am choking right now due to time crunch :P03:25
madrazron a Friday evening at 8:25PM03:25
madrazrask me more about it03:25
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jasvirmadrazr: Ok :)03:34
madrazrjasvir: what is your question though?03:35
jasvirmadrazr: 8:25PM in us?03:35
madrazrjasvir: what do you mean by why are we not updating the text editor for Melange?03:36
madrazrwhich text editor?03:36
madrazrjasvir: proposal form you mean?03:36
jasvirmadrazr: Actually, personally I feel lots of problems while submitting my proposal.03:36
jasvirmadrazr: yes03:37
madrazrjasvir: such as?03:37
jasvirmadrazr: It ruined all indentations,.03:37
jasvirmadrazr: Many times, I go for editing HTML source editing.03:37
madrazrjasvir: what better suggestions do you have?03:37
NiharikaI would like to add a point. Please make the editor larger in size. It´s hard to edit the proposal.03:38
jasvirmadrazr: It's not only me. Almost, all my friends have faced same problems.03:38
jasvirNiharika: +103:38
madrazrNiharika: please file an issue03:38
NiharikaOn it.03:38
madrazrjasvir: I do not deny that this text editor is crappy03:39
jasvirmadrazr: See this:
tpbTitle: Friday, 2014-03-21 (at
madrazrjasvir: but do you have a suggestion for a better one?03:39
jasvirmadrazr: This was also happened with me.03:39
jasvirmadrazr: Currently, I say no.03:40
jasvirmadrazr: But I can.03:40
madrazrjasvir: then you have your answer for your question "madrazr: why we are not updating our text editor at melange?"03:41
madrazrthere are a bunch of options that I have looked at03:41
jasvirmadrazr: like?03:41
madrazrwith each of them we are going to lose some functionality or the other03:41
madrazrso the question is, whom are we going to disappoint more03:41
madrazror the inertia of leaving things around as is03:41
madrazrone option03:42
tpbTitle: | The best web text editor for everyone (at
tpbTitle: Bootstrap Markdown (at
madrazranother option03:42
jasvirmadrazr: ok03:44
jasvirmadrazr: so you mean, there is no option? Either we use this or some other with lack of functionality.03:45
madrazrjasvir: there is03:46
madrazrjasvir: some one needs to make a strong point to make a move03:46
madrazrjasvir: and take the engineering efforts involved03:47
madrazrjasvir: we are not making a move because, nobody feels strongly about what features are worth losing03:47
madrazrand there is no clear estimate of the time required to do it03:47
madrazrjasvir: if you want to jump into that03:48
madrazrtake the responsibility03:48
madrazrfeel free to03:48
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madrazreven before that03:48
madrazrin all fairness to tinyMCE03:48
madrazrit has made a lot of progress since we updated it in 201203:48
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jasvirmadrazr: I think this task take much more time thn GSoC. So have to do it in off season03:49
madrazrjasvir: 2 years is quite a long time to not have updated03:49
jasvirmadrazr: I'll definately take responisbility.03:49
madrazrit is time to do that I think first03:49
madrazrjasvir: probably03:49
madrazrthere is no clear estimate03:49
madrazrthat's the problem03:49
madrazrmay be it will take only a day03:50
jasvirmadrazr: If we make a team, than it could be easy.03:50
madrazrmay be it will take a month03:50
madrazrmay be a year03:50
jasvirmadrazr: So, first of all. A report is to be made.03:50
jasvirmadrazr: I'll do it.03:51
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jasvirmadrazr: I will be free after 28. After that I'll start making a report listing all problems faced by me, my friends and other reachables.03:52
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jasvirmadrazr: And work on it in offseason.03:54
jasvirmadrazr: Why melange not participates in GCI?03:55
madrazrjasvir: we do not have the mentoring-capacity/effort GCI requires04:07
madrazrjasvir: it is somewhat unfortunate that we have a meta problem04:08
madrazrjasvir: it is exactly when these programs run that we also need a lot more time for engineering efforts04:08
jasvirmadrazr: If one can have capacity to mentor in GSoC, thn why not GCI?04:08
jasvirmadrazr: Oh04:08
madrazrjasvir: GSoC we manage because by the time the actual coding starts04:08
madrazrmost of the engineering work would be done, more or less04:09
jasvirmadrazr: What capacity you are expecting?04:09
madrazrjasvir: mentoring capacity04:09
jasvirmadrazr: I wish to be a mentor. What can I do for that?04:10
madrazrjasvir: contribute :)04:10
madrazrjasvir: become a core contributor so that other developers can trust you enough to mentor others04:10
madrazrjasvir: it is all about building rapport04:11
jasvirmadrazr: ok.04:11
jasvirmadrazr: I'll try my best.04:11
jasvirmadrazr: eagerly waiting for comment on my proposal :)04:14
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madrazralright I am going home04:54
madrazrthis is a never ending thing04:54
madrazrneed to get some rest04:54
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anth_xanyone know how i, as an org admin, can view the 2013 proposals to my org?15:02
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anth_xoh, never mind; i just had to change the "status" filter on the 2013 page.15:12
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vivekjainmadrazr: Hi19:52
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ashishkmadrazr: ping20:21
madrazrashishk: pong20:21
ashishkmadrazr: regarding issue 2138 ,can you explain me what are the requirements of the issue??20:24
madrazrashishk: ignore and withdraw should be gate one another20:27
madrazrwhen the proposal is withdrawn there should be no way to ignore20:27
madrazrand when the proposal is ignored it need not be withdrawn20:27
madrazr*it shouldn't be allowed to be withdrawn20:27
ashishkmadrazr: i have done that but daniel commented that it was just an example and issue is more complicated than that20:28
ashishkmadrazr: i did not understand what else need to be done ??20:28
madrazrashishk: btw I don't think we should wait for Daniel's ideal solution20:32
madrazrashishk: what Daniel means is, this needs to be generalized for other actions20:33
madrazrfor example, your patch takes care of only the case when the proposal is withdrawn20:33
madrazrashishk: what if the proposal is ignored?20:33
madrazrashishk: will the student still be able to withdraw the proposal?20:34
madrazrashishk: and after withdrawing the proposal, the proposal's state changes to "withdrawn"20:34
madrazrashishk: and if he/she un-withdraws the proposal, the proposal goes back to the "submitted" state20:34
madrazrinstead of previous "ignored" state20:35
madrazrashishk: the mentors would have done so much work to determine whether the proposal should be ignored or not20:35
madrazrby example, reading the proposal etc.20:35
madrazrall that will be undone now20:35
madrazrso Daniel means we need a better solution to handle all such state dependencies20:35
madrazrthan just slapping in an if-condition there20:36
madrazrjust for the withdrawn status20:36
madrazrwe need to build a state machine there20:36
madrazrnot a very sophisticated one20:36
madrazrbut still it needs one20:36
ashishkmadrazr: yeah,got it :)20:37
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ashishkmadrazr: can you explain me the state machine part ??20:41
madrazrashishk: what explanation do you want?20:41
madrazrI just explained it now?20:41
madrazrthe whole explanation was about the state machines20:41
ollymadrazr: hmm, if the student has withdrawn their proposal, why shouldn't the org be able to ignore it?20:42
ollyif they've looked at it, it's nice to be able to record that20:42
madrazrolly: why do the work?20:42
ollysince the student can unwithdraw20:42
ashishkmadrazr: If if-condition is not relevant here than how are we going to implement it ??20:43
madrazrolly: if the student has already withdrawn, the student knows that he/she does not want that to be considered for review at all20:43
madrazrolly: that's the problem20:43
ollystudents hit withdraw by accident quite frequently it seems20:43
* gevaerts also doesn't really see how ignored and withdrawn are related apart from having similar effects20:43
madrazrolly: if student unwithdraws, we are screwed anyway20:43
ollyperhaps i need to read the ticket20:43
ollywill do so later as i need to go out quite soon20:44
madrazrgevaerts: they indeed have similar effects20:44
madrazrgevaerts: the difference is in who performs the action20:45
gevaertsYes, exactly20:45
gevaertsAs long as they're reversible, you can get interesting situations if you treat them as one flag20:45
madrazrgevaerts: correct, treating them as one flag is one of the problems there20:46
madrazrgevaerts: which is why I think we need a better solution than putting an if-condition to what buttons to render is not enough20:46
madrazrgevaerts: which is why I think we need a better solution than putting an if-condition to what buttons to render20:47
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* gevaerts nods20:47
madrazrashishk: read the discussion just now20:47
madrazrashishk: that holds a part of the answer20:47
madrazrashishk: and that does not mean that we don't want ifs at all :P20:48
madrazrOMG, only if there was such a language ;-)20:48
madrazrashishk: we will need conditional flow to decide what buttons to render based on various states possible20:48
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gevaertsmadrazr: you can write if-less code in several languages if you really want to :)20:49
madrazrashishk: but putting only one if just for the withdrawn status is not the solution though20:49
madrazrgevaerts: sure20:49
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madrazrOk, I scared the student away I think? :P20:49
gevaertsIn this sort of case I think I might consider a table-based approach20:49
gevaertsAlthough I haven't thought about it a lot :)20:50
madrazrgevaerts: table-based approach is an interesting idea20:50
madrazrI need to chew on it a bit20:50
* gevaerts hopes more than the button is disabled, and that the server will also reject these actions if people do funny stuff :)20:50
madrazrhistorically, in Melange, we have done all out state-machines using if-elif-else20:50
madrazryeah exactly20:51
madrazrOh, I disable the button20:51
madrazrbut I totally let HTTP POST to make these calls20:51
madrazrand I will just do what POST call says is not going to help20:51
madrazrgevaerts: in fact this was one of the problems during first GCI20:51
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madrazrgevaerts: because GCI Tasks are a big state machine20:52
gevaertsSounds like you're having fun :)20:52
madrazryeah :D20:52
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gevaertsThe thing with chains of if/else is that it's easy to lose track of what's going on20:53
madrazryeah, agreed20:53
codethyHi! Can I ask a question about contributions?20:53
madrazrcodethy: "don't ask to ask, just ask" is one of the taglines of this channel and #gsoc's :)20:54
codethysorry! I finished a patch but when I checked back on the thread a couple else had already submitted fixes. Is it okay to still contribute mine?20:55
madrazrcodethy: that's a tricky question to answer20:56
madrazrcodethy: I don't want your work to go waste20:56
madrazrcodethy: but also on the other hand, I don't want you to spend more time on something that is likely not going to be accepted20:56
madrazrcodethy: because somebody has already done the work before and it is likely correct20:56
madrazrcodethy: with some minor cleanups needed20:57
madrazrI will leave this decision to your judgement20:57
codethyoh i wouldn't be spending more time on it since i've finished. i was just wondering whether it would be okay to still submit this since gsoc recommends you make a contribution so you guys can see some of my code :P20:57
madrazrcodethy: indeed, we need to see some patches20:58
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ashishkmadrazr: sorry,got disconnected21:04
madrazrashishk: np21:04
ashishkmadrazr: I was reading the logs I saw your point that we need to decide conditional flow first :)21:13
ashishkmadrazr: so we can build a separate class which will take state of proposal as input and return if corresponding button should be shown or not21:14
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vivekjainmadrazr: Regarding issue 2131, should the flow be like if the mentor submits the rating without any star then rating will be 0.21:20
madrazrashishk: function21:21
madrazrashishk: we are trying to move away from classes as much as possible, unless it is the right solution for the task21:22
ashishkmadrazr: yes,function would be a good choice :)21:22
madrazrvivekjain: how can you make the mentor submit the rating without any star?21:23
madrazrat least with the current star widget?21:23
vivekjainmadrazr: yeah so we need to add the submit button for the rating also? or should we add another star depicting the zero star21:24
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madrazrvivekjain: don't make the UI that horrible please!21:26
madrazrvivekjain: star with a submit button, people are going to ask who builds such UIs in 201421:26
gevaertsDon't forget to add a confirmation dialog!21:27
vivekjainmadrazr:adding the button will be horrible.I think special star should be better. Because with current UI there are not much possibilities.21:28
madrazrgevaerts: Oh yeah, totally! Like the one that pops up in the user's face and just says "Press any to continue and any other other key to exit"21:29
madrazr"... or any other key to exit"21:29
madrazrvivekjain: I would love to see the mockup21:30
gevaertsmadrazr: "click 'cancel' to override this warning and continue"21:30
madrazrgevaerts: that is less dramatic :P21:30
gevaertsmadrazr: only if one of the buttons actually says "cancel"!21:31
madrazrgevaerts: lol21:31
gevaertsYou'd of course have a "Yes" and a "No" button with that text21:31
madrazrsomeone should run a social experiment with that :P21:32
gevaertsMaybe a website with a few thousand student users?21:33
* gevaerts vaguely remembers some parts of melange in the old days...21:34
gevaertsmadrazr: are you sure such an experiment has not been done yet? :)21:34
madrazrgevaerts: ha ha, I know nothing21:34
madrazrI am innocent21:34
vivekjainmadrazr: Thanks I will build a prototype of extra star method.21:35
gevaertsmadrazr: Maybe it's a properly done double-blind experiment, in which case you wouldn't be expected to know :)21:35
madrazrvivekjain: sure, be willing to take some critical review21:35
madrazrgevaerts: probably that, yes!21:36
vivekjainmadrazr: Ok.21:38
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ashishkmadrazr: We can also have two variables for state21:48
ashishkmadrazr: one for student and one for mentor21:48
ashishkmadrazr: state_stu and state_org21:48
ashishkand correspondingly we can decide the state as follows:21:49
ashishkas student will have only option to change the status stated as withdraw or not21:49
ashishkso state will be given by a function as follows:21:49
ashishk1. withdraw && ignore -> withdraw21:49
ashishk2. withdraw && not ignore -> withdraw21:50
ashishk3. not withdraw && ignore -> ignore21:50
ashishk4. not withdraw && not ignore -> status doesn't change21:50
ashishkmadrazr: I think all the possibliity are covered here21:50
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madrazrashishk: what happens when the proposal is marked as accepted by the org21:56
madrazrrather soon to be accepted21:57
madrazrashishk: student withdraws21:57
madrazras in accidentally clicks on the withdraw button21:57
madrazrand then realizes the mistake and un-withdraws?21:57
madrazrashishk: this is what Daniel is referring to as the need for a generic solution21:58
madrazrthe problem is not with just two states21:58
madrazrwe need to have a generic solution21:58
madrazrfirst of all I would love to see a state diagram21:58
madrazrexplaining what state transitions are possible from which state21:58
madrazrashishk: like for example21:59
tpb<> (at
madrazrOMG! It has been 5 years since I wrote that22:00
madrazrstill feels like recent22:00
madrazrTime flies!22:00
ashishkmadrazr: yes,I will draw a state diagram asap22:01
ashishkmadrazr: I am on it22:01
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madrazrashishk: cool!22:15
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ashishkmadrazr: you there ??22:45
ashishkmadrazr: please have a look at it,I have made a simple state diagram
tpb<> (at
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ashishkmadrazr: Here,i have added an extra state temporary which will allow the student to change back to it's previous state22:50
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madrazrashishk: what is temporary?22:57
madrazrwhy is it different from "Ignore" and "Withdraw"?22:57
ashishkmadrazr: It is an extra state which will allow user to go to previous state if he/she withdraws it by mistake22:58
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ashishkmadrazr:If a student withdraws a proposal which was accepted by an org then what will be the status of the proposal23:14
ashishkmadrazr: will it be withdrawn or accepted ??23:14
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madrazrashishk: there are multiple ways in which we can do this23:30
madrazrashishk: we can keep a boolean flag somewhere which says this was already accepted23:31
madrazrashishk: and then change the status to withdrawn23:31
madrazror the other way round of keeping boolean for with withdrawn and leave the status as accepted23:31
madrazrashishk: but in any case23:32
madrazrjust thinking about the design without thinking about the code23:32
madrazrsuch a state should be represented as "accepted-withdrawn"23:32
ashishkmadrazr: yes,you are right It should be called as accepted-withdrawn23:33
ashishkmadrazr: suppose an org admin had ignored a proposal then I think whether student withdraw or un-withdraw the proposal it should not affect the current ignore status right23:36
ashishkmadrazr: ??23:36
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