Wednesday, 2009-07-22

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dhansMerio: ping?10:58
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Meriodhans: (very late) pong! :)13:04
dhansMerio: hey :-)13:11
dhansMerio: are you already in Dublin?13:11
Meriodhans: yes, and a little bit tired :) Sorry fell asleep, that's the reason why I didn't reply before :)13:12
MerioBut now I'm almost well :)13:12
dhansMerio: no problem at all :-)13:12
dhansMerio: anyway, I was thinking a little bit about those 'shared charts'. Do you remember?13:13
Meriodhans: yes, you mean charts that shares the final result but not the original data?13:14
dhansMerio: if I remember correctly, you meant charts that are for example created by Leslie and she marks them 'public', so that anyone can see them13:15
dhansMerio: there was a problem for example when to delete such a chart from data store13:16
Meriodhans: yes, actually for example Leslie can tweak again the chart using the original data, but anyone who use that chart can't see the original data13:18
Meriodhans: yes, I recall... I don't know if we should delete them or mark them visible/invisible or something13:19
Meriodhans: what about having a meeting tomorrow at 17:00 (your time), because I would like also to talk with you about your work of these weeks, status against the final goals and... where to start again the hard work :)13:21
dhanshmm actually I was thinking and there is an awful lot of problems and complications with those 'shared charts'. delete problem is just an example so maybe we should have a simpler solution?13:22
dhansOne of those is for example: we have a list of 'public charts' available and when someone wants to see it, he or she just creates a 'local copy' of such a chart13:23
Meriodhans: actually there surely should be a local copy of the instance. That should refer however to the same statistics data of the original. The different thing should be that, for example, Leslie can point to some data and have a reduced set for the charts marked as public13:25
Meriodhans: that's what I was thinking, but, yes, we should think seriously about the drawbacks of such architecturr13:26
dhansMerio: hmm ok, so if there is a copy of chart for each user who uses it, there is no problem with removing - we just delete that local copy from the data store...13:28
Meriodhans: yep, only thing is if Leslie deletes a chart, we should not delete the "simplified" data because the other charts refer to them13:32
dhanshmm but does not charts get data directly from statistic entity?13:33
Meriodhans: yes, but not some of the shared one. For example Leslie could want to produce a chart that starts from statistics that cannot be made public, but the subset she uses can be public13:34
Meriodhans: So the data the public chart should refer to should be a subset of the original data13:35
Meriodhans (which yes, is a statistic entity)13:35
Meriodhans: but what if Leslie wants to delete the original chart? Should we want to delete the data subset statistic entity? If so, what happens to the charts?13:35
dhansMerio: let me understand it. leslie for example wants to show a subset of Students Per Age data (for example age range: 20 - 25), ok?13:38
dhansMerio: so where will information about the subset be stored? in chart?13:39
Meriodhans: I think in statistic, as a new statistic entity13:39
dhansMerio: maybe we can display an empty widget with information "This public chart is not available any more"?13:41
Meriodhans: could be a solution, I think this particular one should be asked to Leslie directly13:42
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dhansMerio: another thing I was thinking of: calculate 'subset jsons' on the fly (from statistic entity) based on some params in chart.py13:45
dhansI am sorry :-) It is just that Poland won't have any teams in Champions Leage again this year :-P13:46
Meriodhans: sorry about that!13:47
Meriodhans: actually I don't follow soccer too much (I'm not so Italian in that field :P)13:47
Meriodhans: yes, that jLinq stuff. I think they're low priority, not in the final goals, am I wrong?13:48
dhansMerio: are you kidding? I am so happy that they did not qualify :P13:49
dhansMerio: it is not mentioned in the final goals list13:50
Meriodhans: why you're so happy? :)13:51
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Meriodhans: so... well, shouldn't we focus on the final goals? :P13:52
dhansMerio: so in the final goals there is nothing about public charts13:53
Meriodhans: yes, there's something about having them exported as images. Could be something "provisional", so we can achieve it in less time and then start working on the bases for the private/public/jLinq stuff13:55
dhansMerio: I was looking into this today and could not find anything helpful so that it is very easy for exporting as images in the way I talked with sverre, but maybe I was looking wrong13:57
Meriodhans: which way? IIRC Pawel told about using chart API or something. But then I don't know if there's something similar with visualizations, I should give a look at it13:59
dhansMerio: about champions leage :) first of all I am from Warsaw, and Polish Champion team is from Krakow (another big city), so our teams does not really like each other :-) Second of all, if a team cannot beat (or destroy) a team from Estionia which has average attendance at about 500 fans per match, they will not achieve anything in champions league even if they luckily qualified. Then they would draw AC Milan or AS Roma and you would be happy14:01
Meriodhans: understood :)14:02
dhansMerio: I do not remember, but he wanted something like this: leslie put an image on her blog just by <a src=/some_path_in_melange ...> </a> and that patch redirects to a visualization...14:03
dhansimg instead of a14:04
dhansMerio: about exporting I found for example[email protected]/msg00754.html14:07
tpb<> (at
dhansMerio: which is not very positive :P14:07
Meriodhans: you're talking about document transclusion?14:08
Meriodhans: if so, it's very easy to achieve, we're very close to it14:09
Meriodhans: problem is image exporting14:09
Meriodhans: I think for the moment we can use chart API, as we're not using too much different visualizations and we're not tweaking them14:10
dhansMerio: I think I am talking about exporting... Am I not? :-)14:10
Meriodhans: but afterwards it could be a problem. I know a way to export a section of the viewport as a JPG in Firefox, but obviously it's not crossbrowser14:10
dhansobviously not :)14:11
Meriodhans: "Merio: I do not remember, but he wanted something like this: leslie put an image on her blog just by <a src=/some_path_in_melange ...> </a> and that patch redirects to a visualization..."... this sounded like document transclusion to me :)14:11
dhansMerio: so, yes, I was talking about transclusion14:12
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dhansMerio: anyway, I think in the first place we should focus on the visualizations. because if I remember correctly, you wanted some statistics to send data_table object, and some to send "half-cooked" json?14:14
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Meriodhans: yes, but still this is not something in the final goals, that's something we should focus on later if we have the time, because it's not enough to send "half-cooked" json, we should have something to tweak with it using jLinq, and it's something a little bit long to code14:15
Meriodhans: at least IIRC the final goals :D14:16
SRabbelierMerio: not 'a src' but 'img src'14:16
SRabbelierMerio: and it can be as simple as having that path-in-melange return an html redirect to the correct visualization api url14:16
SRabbelier**chart api url14:17
MerioSRabbelier: but we're using visualizations, not Chart... so we should point to a javascript that loads the data from the backend and then tweaks the visualizations and do something in a div inside the target document... but it's kinda XSS :P14:18
SRabbelierMerio: oh, blah, we're not using any chart at all?14:18
MerioSRabbelier: at least if I can focus on the problem in this very time (busy fixing things at home, being absent for some time here :P)14:18
MerioSRabbelier: in this very moment no... we can if we want but we focused on visualizations14:18
SRabbelierMerio: then perhaps it would be more appropriate for it to be a '<script src=...>' tag instead?14:19
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MerioSRabbelier: yes something like that, we should use a similar architecture like google maps or visualizations itself to achieve something like that :P14:19
SRabbelierMerio: honestly, I don't care how it's done, as lone as it's easily copy/pastable and is up-to-date14:20
SRabbelier(with up-to-date I mean that for statistics that change the same url should give different results as the statistic changes, it shouldn't be a snapshot of how things are the moment the blogpost is made)14:21
MerioSRabbelier: eheheh you're playing "typical customer" :D :D ehehe however, yes, I will look further into it and how to do it14:21
MerioSRabbelier: you're completely right here14:21
SRabbelierMerio: awesome :)14:22
SRabbelierMerio: although I guess we might also want a snapshot feature14:22
SRabbelierMerio: (which could just return some JS with the data as it is at that particular moment embedded)'14:22
MerioSRabbelier: that one could be a little bit more difficult, because it should be stored and managed as well, so it's a different kind of architecture14:23
SRabbelierMerio: I'd rather not have the server have to store the snapshot data server side14:24
SRabbelierMerio: so it'd be better if the snapshots did not use Melange at all and instead just directly talk to the visualzation API14:24
MerioSRabbelier: but the data to give to visualizations should be stored somewhere :)14:25
SRabbelierMerio: hardcoded in the copy-pastable snippet?14:26
SRabbelierMerio: isn't that possible?14:26
MerioSRabbelier: IIRC you can with chart API (embedding data in the url), but not with visualizations. Perhaps something with gadgets, I don't know... with visualizations you can store data in google spreadsheets, for example. But I'll look further into it right tomorrow.14:31
SRabbelierMerio: thanks :)14:39
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dhansMerio: ok, so see you tomorrow at 3 PM UTC :-)18:18
Meriodhans: ok ^__^18:20
dhansMerio: cool. g'night then :-)18:21
Meriodhans: g'night ^__^18:21
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