Sunday, 2009-05-17

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SRabbeliermadrazr: o hi13:16
madrazrSRabbelier: heya!13:17
madrazrSRabbelier: haven't completed the patch yet :(13:17
SRabbeliermadrazr: for shame! :P13:18
SRabbeliermadrazr: you been slacking? :D13:18
madrazrSRabbelier: no there is a presentation in school, preparing it is taking longer than expected :(13:18
madrazrpresentation is tomo morning13:18
SRabbeliermadrazr: no worries :)13:19
SRabbeliermadrazr: do you think you'll be doing it tonight?13:19
SRabbeliermadrazr: if not, that's ok13:19
madrazrSRabbelier: I will try to complete by tonight13:21
SRabbeliermadrazr: ok, cool13:22
madrazrSRabbelier: in Amsterdam yet?13:29
SRabbeliermadrazr: back home now :)13:29
madrazrSRabbelier: Oh Ok :)13:30
madrazrso how was the day?13:30
SRabbeliermadrazr: awesome, we went to the zoo :D13:30
madrazrSRabbelier: wow!13:30
SRabbeliermadrazr: they had giraffe's ^_^13:30
madrazrSRabbelier: cool! :)13:31
SRabbelieryup :D13:31
madrazrSRabbelier: you want me to parametrize only scope_path or every other property there?14:47
SRabbeliermadrazr: only the properties that are relevant ofcourse14:47
SRabbeliermadrazr: e.g., the ones that refer directly to gsoc or such14:47
madrazrSRabbelier: Ok14:48
SRabbeliermadrazr: and also don't call it 'gsoc2009' but something like 'program_entity' (don't remember if you did)14:48
madrazrSRabbelier: yeah have changed that already14:48
SRabbeliermadrazr: cool, :)14:48
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madrazrSRabbelier: should I parametrize even name, short_name, group_label and stuff?15:08
SRabbeliermadrazr: nono, why?15:08
SRabbeliermadrazr: they don't refer to their program do they?15:08
SRabbeliermadrazr: (if you did, what'd be the point in having the method if you have to specify all values? :P)15:09
madrazrSRabbelier: he he yeah :D15:09
madrazrSRabbelier: thats what made me ask the question :P15:09
SRabbeliermadrazr: :D15:10
madrazrSRabbelier: Lennie asked me to sort the imports, I am still not sure if "from ...organization" precedes "from ...org_app" or follows it?15:56
madrazrwhich has higher precedence 'a' or '_' ?15:56
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SRabbeliermadrazr: see style guide? ^_^15:56
madrazrSRabbelier: style guide did not say about this :( or may be I missed it?15:57
madrazrlet me check once more15:57
SRabbeliermadrazr: it should say what order to sort imports in15:57
madrazrSRabbelier: it just says alphabetically15:58
SRabbeliermadrazr: I think org_app then organization15:58
madrazrSRabbelier: Ok15:58
madrazrSRabbelier: I have sent the patch16:07
SRabbeliermadrazr: cool16:08
madrazrSRabbelier: I will leave for the day. Have to get up early tomo morning16:08
madrazrsee you16:08
madrazrgood night16:08
SRabbeliermadrazr: ok!16:08
SRabbeliermadrazr: good luck!16:08
madrazrSRabbelier: thanks16:08
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ajaksuSRabbelier: I want to implement your melange issue tracker, will mail the list soon :)17:07
SRabbelierajaksu: implement our melange issue tracker? :P17:08
ajaksuyour in-melange issue tracker :)17:08
SRabbelierajaksu: why do you say 'your'? :P17:09
SRabbelierajaksu: where'd you get this from? :P17:09
ajaksuSRabbelier: ? :)17:11
tpb<> (at
SRabbelierajaksu: but... as said... it's not a roadmap, just some wild idea's of what we'd like to have "some time" :P17:12
ajaksuwell, I'd like to implement it right now, but can postpone if the timing is bad :)17:13
SRabbelierajaksu: why that feature specifically? :)17:14
SRabbelierand, why now? :)17:14
ajaksuSRabbelier: because I'm working with the Python bug tracker, both fixing things and adding features (see ), and I want to learn AppEngine, Django and Melange...17:15
tpbTitle: Issue 5: List of new features implemented in this Experimental Tracker - PythoExperimentalTracker (at
ajaksunow because I have time, not sure if I'll be free later :)17:15
SRabbelierajaksu: mhh, you have time now, how much? :D17:16
* SRabbelier would rather not end up with a half-finished piece of code17:16
SRabbelierwould be a waste of time for all involved :)17:17
SRabbelier(better to pick something that you can finish instead)17:17
ajaksutoo much? :) until mid-june, I can work > 20h a week on this, then I'll have to slow it down but still have > 5h a week for a couple of months17:18
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SRabbelierajaksu: that's about one month?17:18
SRabbelierajaksu: would you perhaps be interested in working on surveys? :D17:19
ajaksuthat's about 100 hours in a month :)17:19
SRabbelierajaksu: (James Levy has already started on them, but his GSoC starts soon)17:19
SRabbeliertbh, I don't think you can complete an issue tracker in that timeframe :P17:19
ajaksuSRabbelier: if I can finish surveys (the input and storage part, graphs and stats are GSoC terrain IIUC, no?) in nice, tested shape in a week, would you OK the issue tracker work? ;)17:20
SRabbelierajaksu: hehe, if you use James' work as a startign ground, and talk with him so that no work is wasted, why not17:21
ajaksuok, let me start checking things out and I'll mail the list about picking up surveys in a couple of hours :)17:23
SRabbelierajaksu: James has a git repo online at github17:23
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SRabbelierajaksu: have you used git or hg before?17:24
ajaksuI'm using hg for my work on the Python bug tracker, I'm emailing you about it right now :)17:25
SRabbelierajaksu: ok, nice, do you know how to clone jame's work? (you could try out hg-git)17:25
James--CrookSRabbelier: Isn't GHOP an issue tracker with smarts?17:26
SRabbelierJames--Crook: mhhhh, yes17:26
James--CrookIn previous years it actually was the google issue tracker.17:26
James--Crookajaksu: tell me more about what you want to achieve and why you are not using an existing issue tracker.  Is it mostly as a learning exercise, or do you have reason to want a new issue tracker?17:27
ajaksuI can git clone and work with hg on that, if he wants me to send him patches I'll learn the git magic for that :)17:27
SRabbelierajaksu: you can contribute to his git repo with hg, is pretty awesome17:28
SRabbelierajaksu: but yes, do talk with James--Crook17:28
ajaksuJames--Crook: I've just finished an email about this, I was going to send to the list, then just to Sverre until I finish Surveys, now I'm confused :D17:28
ajaksuI work on the python issue tracker, which is roundup17:28
SRabbelierajaksu: you can mail me and cc James if you want17:29
James--CrookOK.  I don't know roundup.  Tell me more.17:29
James--CrookI'm looking at
ajaksuI want to learn appengine, django and melange, so I'm looking for something to work with melange... since I'm deep into one issue tracker's code, I figured it would be the best thing to tackle :)17:30
James--CrookRight, well I am looking for a new style to doing issue tracking.  I'm a mentor with audacity (audio editor) and we've been looking at how to do issue tracking better....17:31
James--Crookbecause we're a tiny team, with huge numbers of users (and lots of issues :-) )17:32
SRabbelierand I've been digging James--Crook's suggestions for a better wiki so far, all the annoyances I have with are addressed by his suggestions :)17:32
SRabbelierwhich, incidentaly, maps very well to melange17:32
SRabbelieritty bitty tiny team (although growing :D), and lotsa users17:32
ajaksuJames--Crook: is my experimental playground, I'd be glad to work on a set of features for you :)17:33
tpbTitle: Issue 5: List of new features implemented in this Experimental Tracker - PythoExperimentalTracker (at
ajaksuSRabbelier: so melange would shift some development from to dogfood? :)17:34
James--Crookso I'm thinking you shouldn't take sverre's suggestion about surveys as gospel.  You'll get more done if it is something that interests and excites you.17:34
SRabbelierajaksu: setting 'depends on' is not quite what we want though17:34
SRabbelierJames--Crook: +1 on that17:34
James--Crookajaksu: I'm having a look...17:34
SRabbelierajaksu: we want full visibility off the grouped issues17:34
ajaksuJames--Crook: I could use the melange-fu Surveys would give me17:35
SRabbelier(and we could really do with surveys being done :P017:36
ajaksuSRabbelier: just a list of each issue (title, status, what else? messages?) or full forms for inline editing them?17:36
SRabbelierand we haven't started on the plugin architecture yet, we won't till this Saturday17:36
SRabbelierajaksu: I think James--Crook can best explain that17:36
ajaksuSRabbelier: would it make more sense to have voting support for issues and base surveys on that? :)17:37
* SRabbelier shakes17:37
SRabbelierajaksu: no, what we want for surveys is pretty specific17:37
James--Crookajaksu: Too many balls in the air all at once.  Let's take things one at a time.17:38
ajaksuJames--Crook: agreed17:38
James--Crookajaksu: so far I know for sure that you want to learn about django, GAE and see melange a s agood place to do so.  That is correct.17:39
James--CrookAn issue tracker project is definitely of interest to us.17:39
James--CrookIt could fit in with GHOP (which was issue tracker based)17:39
SRabbelier(but it probably won't in the way we want)17:40
SRabbelier(since there's a whole lot of other stuff madhusudan will be doing during his gsoc)17:40
ajaksuSRabbelier: how so?17:40
James--CrookIn terms of getting feedback/help/assistance from core developers, the more closely what you do helps progress melange the more you are likely to get.17:40
SRabbelierI am always willing to help anyone get up to speed, but of course I too have to prioritize :(17:41
James--CrookHowever, at this stage I don't know what your skill level is.  You might need only the very occasional 'oh GAE can't do that - we've talked with the developers...'17:41
ajaksuJames--Crook: that's why I'd like to start with Surveys, it'd be a great way for me to get to know the code and practises, and doesn't need me pushing for ideas or roadmap feedback  IIUC17:42
James--CrookOK.  That sounds a clear decision then.  Let me say a bit more about surveys....17:43
SRabbelierand it'd give us some clue as to what your foo is :P17:43
ajaksuSRabbelier: exactly ;)17:43
James--CrookSo the way I see surveys they are a bit like google-forms, but built in to melange so that we can then do more with them.17:43
ajaksuJames--Crook: I've also been reading all melange lists for a while, so I'm familiar with some limitations17:44
James--CrookIn our first cut we are not looking to have the fancy ajaxy stuff that allows us to rearrange questions etc.17:44
SRabbelierone of the requirements is that we need to be able to create a midterm and endterm form17:44
SRabbelierthat has a  "did the student pass" question17:44
SRabbelierwhich can easily be queried by a job later on17:44
James--CrookOh great.  So you know the wiki page on surveys?17:45
SRabbelieraside from that, it's all game17:45
James--CrookI'm not seeing you nodding, it's at
tpbTitle: SurveysModule - soc - Design/discussion for Surveys - Google Code (at
SRabbelierJames--Crook: might be because you forgot to turn on cam! :P17:46
ajaksusorry, had to answer the phone :)17:46
James--CrookThe main difference between surveys and what melange has done so far is that at the moment in melange all the models are static.  The fields in the records are defined up fornt.17:48
James--CrookSurveys are the first time we will have fields that are added at run time.17:48
ajaksuI see,  dynamic views, db.Expando and caching issues17:50
James--Crookcaching issues?17:51
ajaksu"Caching issues to be fixed. For instance, a field will be deleted from the survey, but will appear in the survey on a page refresh, and then will disappear once the cache has been cleared. " :)17:51
James--CrookI'm not sure that's  the correct term for it on the wiki.17:51
SRabbelier(damn, socghop is dead, we're not even getting 1QPS lately)17:52
James--CrookIf a question has been answered and someone deletes the question...  well I suppose you it could be called caching...17:52
James--CrookIn GAE we have the GAE database, and then to help improve performance we use memcache, which will keep objects you put in it in memory (probably).  I tend to think of that when caching is mentioned.17:53
James--Crookajaksu: Why GAE?  Are you planning to use it more in future?17:54
* SRabbelier is going to bed17:54
James--CrookSRabbelier: nn17:54
SRabbelierJames--Crook: I'll read the backlog tomorrow if I remember ;)17:54
ajaksuJames--Crook: yep, I'd like to have some tools in my web apps belt :)17:54
ajaksuSRabbelier: good night :)17:55
James--CrookSo how are we going to make this work well - what do you need - how do we plan this?17:59
ajaksuI was thinking about (and doing ;) ) taking an overview of the code and the list messages about the Surveys, then write an email introducing myself, summarizing what I perceive to the status of things and proposing a personal work plan18:01
ajaksuthen people can tell me I got 90% wrong and I can review and improve until I have some nice goals set...18:02
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James--Crookthat sounds like a good plan.18:02
James--CrookIt;s probably risky to put time estimates beside things though...18:03
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James--Crookjust say how you'd go about it , what you'd do first, because you won't know how easy/difficult until you actually start coding.18:03
ajaksuthen it's time to hack, I can commit to a public branch where we can do reviews, I can work locally and push patchsets for reviews, whatever fits better with you guys :)18:03
ajaksuJames--Crook: ok, will do, thanks :)18:04
James--CrookI think it will become a lot clearer over time, and with discussion on irc.18:04
James--CrookO.K.  Good talking with you ajaksu.18:04
ajaksuthanks for guiding me James, I'll ping the list later and will be around here, see ya :)18:05
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ajaksuI wonder whether DEF_ALREADY_MENTORING_RPOJECT_MSG is an intentional mispelling... it *is* used consistently :)20:05
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