Sunday, 2009-05-03

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*** Lennie changes topic to "Next up: GHOP Discussion @ 18.00 UTC - Melange powers the Google Summer of Code 2009 site - Want to contribute? Start here: - Be a Hero and Fix Some Melange Bugs: Easy Bugs: & Minimal Effort Bugs: - Demo is running at - Logs at"10:26
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Lenniehi MatthewWilkes11:28
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MatthewWilkeshi Lennie11:33
MatthewWilkesHow goes?11:33
Lenniepretty okay11:33
LennieI'm swamped with work11:33
ErantLiek w0t11:34
Lennieliek bsc project Erant :p11:34
LenniePieter and Ot are slave masters :P11:34
Erantpfrt. Got time to eat greasy fat food?11:34
LennieI do, but no thanks11:34
LennieI had shoarma yesterdya11:35
Lennieand the day before that I had greasy food :P11:35
ErantAww. But but, my sunday ritual! :P11:35
ErantOh, ok :P11:35
ErantI don't wanna kill you. Just yet.11:35
Lenniesorry ^^11:35
MatthewWilkesI just got back from the pub, had an awesomelunch11:35
LennieMatthewWilkes, english style :P?11:35
ErantDon't worry, I will still DO my sunday ritual ;)11:35
LennieErant, maybe next week :D11:35
Erantk ;)11:35
LennieErant, ST :D11:35
LennieErant, I still have that bottle of wine here :)11:36
Lenniewe'll figure something out11:36
ErantYeah. Time to clean some of this mess up first.11:36
MatthewWilkesroasted pork belly with crackling, sweet potato mash, roast potatoes, roasted carrots, roasted swede and broccoli sprouds11:36
LennieErant, I had a cleaning crew last Friday lol :D11:37
ErantMatthewWilkes: Crackling, isn't that like, american? Hillbilly american f00d?11:37
LennieErant, crew of one, but it wasn't me :D11:37
ErantLennie: Bitch11:37
LennieErant, that's spoiled bitch for you :)11:38
Erantalso, 'roasted swede'? Dude...11:38
ErantThey might be from sweden, but they're still people...11:38
Lennieisn't that a vegetable?11:39
MatthewWilkesErant: It's very popular here, especially with the fat still on, deep fried and salted.  Whenever we roast pork we make the skin into crackling11:39
ErantAhk. I always understood it to be from the south.11:40
MatthewWilkesurgh, why on earth does thirdparty/google_appengine not have a  *grumbles*11:42
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lhsolydzajs: greetings13:45
lhmadrazr: greetings13:45
lhwe're getting started in 15 minutes right?13:45
madrazrlh: Morning13:45
madrazrlh: yeah13:45
lhmadrazr: awesome.13:45
MatthewWilkeshi all :)13:45
* lh goes to reread ghop document13:45
lhMatthewWilkes: greetings! :)13:46
madrazrlh: I was a bit scared when you left for a moment now :P13:46
lhmadrazr: nah, don't be scared13:46
madrazrlh: :)13:46
solydzajslh: greetings :-)13:48
lhsolydzajs: how are you?13:48
* lh is checking out ghop document, anything else needed before this meeting?13:48
lhmadrazr: if we are very nice to him, MatthewWilkes was a mentor for ghop last year, he may be able to offer some guidance13:49
MatthewWilkesI am happy to take part in this meeting as a user of the system13:49
madrazrlh: awesome to know. It will really help13:49
madrazrMatthewWilkes: Hi13:49
solydzajslh: good :-) thank you, you ?;-) Holidays here in Poland13:50
madrazrthanks for all the help in advance13:50
lhsolydzajs: very well, thanks. my friends simon and vera are here from berlin.13:50
madrazrMatthewWilkes: we really want your guidance13:50
MatthewWilkesmadrazr: I'm always happy to help in any way I can, especially in making OSPO programmes better13:50
lhmadrazr: once we get through this meeting, we can ask for more help from past participants. :)13:50
solydzajslh: oh awesome :-) they enjoy CA weather ?;-)13:50
lhMatthewWilkes: *hugs*13:50
lhsolydzajs: it's raining and overcast here today13:50
solydzajslh: wow :-) it's sunny in Poland :-)13:51
madrazrlh: coolness!13:51
lhsolydzajs: i am jealous13:51
lhmadrazr: :)13:51
MatthewWilkesLovely weather in Bristol too13:51
solydzajslh: you will have better weather later I'm sure about it :-)13:51
solydzajslh: when I come :-) it will be sunny :D13:51
lhsolydzajs: i know you bring the good weather13:51
MatthewWilkesas we have 10 mins, I'm going to run to the shop, brb13:51
lhMatthewWilkes: have fun!13:52
MatthewWilkescaffeine is required13:52
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madrazrLennie: solydzajs: lh: ping14:00
Lenniedammit :P14:00
Lennieyou beat me to it14:00
LennieSRabbelier: pin14:00
lhmadrazr: pong14:00
LennieSRabbelier: ping14:00
* lh waves to lennie14:00
SRabbelierLennie: pong14:00
madrazrLennie: I pinged at 18:00:00 sharp. LoL!!!14:00
solydzajsLennie: would you like to chair this meeting ?14:00
*** Lennie changes topic to "In session: GHOP Discussion - Melange powers the Google Summer of Code 2009 site - Want to contribute? Start here: - Be a Hero and Fix Some Melange Bugs: Easy Bugs: & Minimal Effort Bugs: - Demo is running at - Logs at"14:00
Lenniecertainly mister chairman14:01
solydzajs:-) awesome14:01
madrazrROFL :P14:01
Lennie6 seconds lag madrazr: [20:00:06] [madrazr] Lennie: solydzajs: lh: ping14:01
solydzajsLennie: any agenda ?14:01
* lh sits back and waits to be useful14:01
Lenniegetting to it14:01
madrazrLennie: Oh really, thats too bad :(14:01
Lenniegimmeh a min to type it :)14:01
madrazrLennie: its sharp 11:30:00 here14:01
LennieSo basically this meeting is going to be about the implementation of a GHOP like workflow into Melange by madrazr. I have asked him to read the material related to this subject and come up with any questions, we will go through those first and see how the discussion fares from there. After that I'm sure others would like to post questions and comments (I also have a few)14:04
solydzajsI would like to answer any questions to GHOP wiki page, anything that is unclear bring it on.14:04
Lennieso, madrazr the stage is yours :D14:04
solydzajsThe design and implementation details require more the just a meeting so it should be placed on separate GHOP-ImplementationDesign wiki page14:04
madrazrLennie: I have prepared a small overview of how the work flow should be implemented as I have understood till now. Shall I start with it, or shall I directly get into question?14:05
* lh would like to see the workflow14:05
Lenniemadrazr: The overview would be nice so we can steer where needed14:05
solydzajsmadrazr: also any documents you prepare please put them on wiki so we can discuss it there too14:05
Lenniemadrazr: It would be nice if you created a seperate wiki page for it as well perhaps after the meeting14:06
Lenniesow e can tweak it :)14:06
solydzajsyep exactly14:06
Lenniediscuss it etc14:06
madrazrLennie: solydzajs: sure. It is all in papers now, not so well organized. I will put them up on the wiki ASAP14:06
solydzajsmadrazr: thx14:06
lhmadrazr: perfect14:06
LennieI read your gtalk message, you were writing on paper after a long time :)14:07
madrazrlh: solydzajs: thanks14:07
Lenniepaper ftw :D14:07
madrazrLennie: he he yeah :D14:07
madrazrLennie: I am still writing on them :P14:07
Lennieokay, gives us the overview :)14:07
madrazrWe basically have 5 roles, same as GSoC - Program Admin, Org Admin, Mentor, Student and Public roles14:08
lhmadrazr: what do you mean by public roles?14:08
LennieI'm guessing anyone not belonging to the 4 other groups?14:08
madrazrlh: basically the person need not login or needs to be authenticated for viewing the info14:08
madrazrlh: something like just see the tasks listed by orgs and stuff14:08
lhmadrazr: ok, great, got it.14:09
madrazrthe program is created by Prog. Admin, it already exists I guess14:09
madrazrPA has a special view, a configuration page where she sets Age limit, Timeline etc14:10
* Lennie is writing stuff down I will comment after your story14:10
madrazrLennie: sure14:10
solydzajsmadrazr: yes correct, this is in Program Settings14:10
solydzajsmadrazr: just like it is now for GSoC14:10
madrazrsolydzajs: yeah14:10
lhsolydzajs: age limit is in program settings?14:11
madrazrthen same as GSoC, mentoring organization apply, LH reviews it, selects them and stuff14:11
solydzajsmadrazr: and separate timeline for this kind of workflow14:11
madrazrlh: not required?14:11
lhmadrazr: it is required, but as far as i know we do age requirement checking manually (solydzajs has been running reports)14:11
solydzajslh: this will be for GHOP, it's not present for GSoC14:11
madrazrsolydzajs: as in? can't we reuse the code i.e used for GSoC14:11
lhsolydzajs: got it ok great14:11
Lenniecan we let the boy finish his story please :D?14:11
Lennieirc logs get fragmented this way :)14:12
solydzajsyes we can :P14:12
madrazrLennie: ha ha LoL! the story is rather big :P14:12
solydzajsok continue14:12
solydzajsand let us know when you finish14:12
madrazranyways coming back, after the mentoring organizations are accepted, LH will assign task quota limit14:12
madrazrthis must be a bit different from slots14:12
madrazrin GSoC since, LH must be able to change it when ever required during the program14:13
madrazrlh: makes sense?14:13
Lennieyou mean GHOP?14:13
madrazrLennie: yeah14:13
solydzajsmadrazr: why it must be different ?14:13
lhmadrazr: yes, this makes perfect sense.14:13
madrazrsolydzajs: since you cannot change the GSoC slots once they are frozen?14:13
madrazrsolydzajs: task limit quotas are different from slots in that sense14:13
solydzajsmadrazr: well not really, there is no limitation to change or add new slots during the program14:14
lhmadrazr is right - task quotas can change if we decide later to do so. slots are frozen when we say they are frozen. also, slots are based on popularity among other things - for ghop, we just decide how many tasks an organization can have14:14
solydzajswell ok14:15
madrazrsolydzajs: Oh it is not enforced now? :P14:15
madrazrcontinuing, Org Admins/Mentors will have sign up options etc etc... same as GHOP. Then Org Admin will have a view to add new tasks14:15
solydzajsok lets say there is different view for assigning tasks amount for orgs14:15
solydzajsI'm ok with it14:15
madrazrset task type and task tag (initial tag)14:15
madrazrsolydzajs: Ok fine yeah14:15
solydzajsadd/delete/edit/list ?14:16
Lenniewe were talking about overview solydzajs14:16
Lenniekeep going madrazr :)14:16
solydzajswhy only org admin ?14:16
solydzajsmentors should be able to add new tasks too14:16
madrazrsolydzajs: yes sure. I just forgot to add it14:17
MatthewWilkesMentors should be able to add tasks with admin approving14:17
* lh agrees with MatthewWilkes 14:17
MatthewWilkesGHOP mentors are often tightly connected community members, often working on fringe projects14:17
* madrazr makes a note of it14:17
MatthewWilkesPSF especially had individual python-based projects providing a couple of tasks14:18
solydzajsI need to leave for 2 minutes14:18
madrazrOrg Admins/Mentors then have text boxes to set additional arbitrary tags14:18
SRabbeliermadrazr: ooh, I dig :)14:18
Lenniemadrazr, will there be a collection of preset tags to :)?14:18
madrazrLennie: no as of now, but Task States and Task Types are also considered as tags right?14:19
madrazrif so they are the only preset tags14:19
* lh agrees with madrazr14:19
madrazrLennie: I think we need an entire meeting to discuss about tags itself, if we have time we will do it today14:20
madrazrLennie: is it Ok?14:20
madrazrSRabbelier: dig?14:20
Lenniemadrazr: depends on how long this meeting is going to take, keep going with your story :)14:20
SRabbeliermadrazr: like, +1? :P14:20 :P14:20
madrazrfine proceeding, OA/Mentors will also be given option to set the difficulty level and deadline for the task (not known how the deadline should be specified. Open Question: "2 days" or "31-05-2009")14:21
MatthewWilkesit's duration from when it's assigned14:22
madrazrthey are given options for subscribing to these individial tasks14:22
madrazrMatthewWilkes: cool!14:22
LennieMatthewWilkes :)14:22
madrazrthen coming to student's part, he will be able to view the tasks14:22
madrazrquite a good number of filters will be given to view this list, I will talk about this in Public view14:23
madrazrthen he will be able to claim that (Question: should this be a check box or a text box?)14:23
madrazronce the task is claimed he will wait for the OA/Mentor to assign it to him (they do this by changing the Task State)14:24
Lenniehold it :)14:24
madrazrLennie: yes14:24
Lennielets take a moment for that question14:24
lhLennie: can i chatter a bit here?14:24
Lenniedo we want every student oa/mentor being able to post comments like it was in last years GHOP?14:24
Lennieyes lh14:24
madrazrlh: sad, you ask permission :(14:24
lhmadrazr: it's lennie's meeting14:25
lhLennie: k thanks. i do think we want every student, oa/mentor commenting14:25
lhto be really clear about this just in case it has not been before14:25
lha student cannot "claim" a task, only request to claim it. a mentor/oa must change state to claim14:25
lhoptimal in my mind for this14:25
lhis a student "requests to claim a task" - maybe a checkbox14:25
lhthis generates notification (email ?) to org admin and tasks assigned mentor14:26
lhthey then set status to claimed14:26
madrazrlh: yes if he has subscribed only14:26
lhin the interim14:26
SRabbelierlh: I think a button is better, checkboxes have proven to be confusing before?14:26
lhmadrazr: ok.14:26
lhSRabbelier: true.14:26
LennieSRabbelier: depends on if we allow commenting14:26
lhhowever, something we did not have in ghop before14:26
lhit would be great if a student has requested to claim a task that the following happens14:26
madrazrlh: Lennie: are we allowing GSoC like commenting infrastructure?14:27
lh1) task is in locked down state, meaning no one else can try to claim it14:27
lhmadrazr: that's up to you. i think it is useful to have14:27
madrazrlh: continue with your points, sorry for stopping you14:27
lh2) student can only request to claim/have claimed one tasks at a time14:27
lhmadrazr: all good14:27
lhmadrazr: do i need to further explain anything i just said?14:27
madrazrlh: no14:27
madrazrlh: I am getting it14:28
lhmadrazr: awesome.14:28
lhthat's all i had to say about this part of the workflow. it's very important to get this part right from the perspective of legal stuff.14:28
MatthewWilkeslh: What's the usecase for mentors rejecting claims?14:28
lhMatthewWilkes: honestly, it's never come up.14:28
lhMatthewWilkes: what has come up is14:28
lhstudents says "i want this task"14:29
lhmentor says "ok, this student has claimed this task"14:29
madrazrlh: Oh I think I have a question now, by lock you mean you don't want other students to claim too, even if the request is not assigned?14:29
lhstudent fails to deliver work14:29
lhmadrazr: that is correct.14:29
lhmentor sets task status to reopened14:29
Lennielh: I dont think we just want to cut off that usecase, someone has to be able to clear a task from its claimed state without assigning it to the student14:29
lhi can see a use case in which a student was a total troll on a project list or forum and mentors do not want her to do any work for them14:29
madrazrlh: what if a student wants to give up before it is assigned to him?14:30
lhand it is necessary to implement this14:30
lhmadrazr: then mentor simply set it to reopened14:30
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lhLennie: i agree, mistakes can happen.14:30
madrazrlh: effectively by locking, we did not allow a 2nd student who wanted to claim the task14:30
LennieStudent should be allowed to withdraw their claim aswell, madrazr/lh14:30
lhLennie: in the scenario you describe, i would simply set task state from "claim requested" to "open"14:30
lhmadrazr: correct14:30
lhLennie: agreed.14:30
madrazrlh: thats a bit unfair no?14:31
lhmadrazr: how so?14:31
madrazrlh: the 2nd student won't no, what is happening in this task?14:31
solydzajsi'm back14:31
MatthewWilkeslh: Would a blacklist not do that?14:31
solydzajsreading backlog14:31
lhmadrazr: 2nd student should be able to see that task is in "claim requested" state14:31
lhMatthewWilkes: i am not sure what you mean by blacklist, please explain14:31
Lennielh: anyone should be able to see that right, it's all happening in the open14:32
madrazrlh: the 1st student withdraws before it is assigned but after 2nd student saw that the claim was requested but not yet assigned14:32
lhLennie: correct14:32
lhmadrazr: i think the only way around this is to let folks follow/subscribe to tasks14:32
lhwhich seems really complicated14:32
Lenniemadrazr, what would be your suggestion to solve this madrazr?14:32
lhit is a contest, part of the contest is too keep your eye out for stuff you want to do14:32
MatthewWilkeslh: As in, block students who are a problem from participating in your programme14:33
MatthewWilkeserr, org14:33
* lh sits back, is quiet and waits for answer to lennie's question14:33
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madrazrLennie: allow any number of students to claim it, but inform them that you are number # in the list to request before it is assigned. Effectively it is like a waiting list14:33
lhMatthewWilkes: i am not sure how that works from a legal implication perspective. need to check into that.14:33
madrazrLennie: if the 1st n student have withdrawn, the mentor/OA assings it to n+1th students14:34
Lenniemadrazr: the system should assign it to the next student14:34
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madrazrLennie: is that too ambitious?14:34
Lenniemadrazr: atleast the mentors should not have the ability to choose :p14:34
lhLennie: the next student may already have a task claimed14:34
lhthis introduce complexity of14:34
madrazrlh: of course yeah14:34
SRabbelierlh: but how can they?14:35
SRabbelierlh: they can only claim one at a time?14:35
lhi am a student, i get on the waiting list for a task. then i go decide i am really way more excited about another one14:35
SRabbelierlh: so all on the waiting list are guaranteed to be "available"14:35
lhSRabbelier: request to claim ! = claimed14:35
SRabbelierlh: oh, you can request to claim more than one?14:35
lhi bet that's not written correctly either14:35
SRabbelierlh: (no space between ! and =, but aside from that, it was :P)14:35
madrazrSRabbelier: ROFLMAO14:35
madrazr:D :D :D14:35
lhSRabbelier: that's what we need to decide. i think if we are going to systematically enqueue requests to claim rather than making students do the legwork to keep an eye on tasks14:36
lhthen we need to allow students to both waitlist their desire for a task *and* claim another in the interim14:36
lhif i am #4 on the waiting list for a task, i dont want to wait for it to open up, i want to go work on another one in the meantime14:36
madrazrlh: waitlist feature is upto you Lennie and all others to decide, it was just my suggestion14:36
Lennielh: if you claim that other task you automatically get removed from the waiting list on others14:37
Lennielh: since you can only subscribe to the ammount specified in the settings14:37
lhLennie: then why have a wait list at all?14:37
lhi guarantee if you are a student in a contest14:37
lhyou want to get something done. now. so you get prizes.14:37
MatthewWilkes+1 - they were really pushing us to do code reviews more quickly last time14:38
MatthewWilkeseven a few hours matters massively to these guys14:38
lhso they could go on to the next task14:38
Lennieokay so14:38
lhwhat may be more interesting14:38
lhand this is just a suggestion14:38
Lenniek, go ahead lh14:38
lhis the ability for students to say "i like this task"14:38
lhso that14:38
lha) if orgs want to go to ghop students later and say, hey we have stuff to do in this area, not part of ghop, are you interested? they know who to go to14:39
lhb) mentors can ping ghop students and say "hey i noticed you were interested in task foo. we just added a new task like foo, would you like to take a look at it?"14:39
MatthewWilkessimilar to b - it gives us feedback on our tasks14:40
MatthewWilkesWe can switch less popular ones out for more popular types14:40
lhthis however is pretty darn ambitious and not strictly required for ghop, so i dont want to add work to an already full plate.14:40
lhMatthewWilkes: that's an excellent point.14:40
Lenniesounds like something we should write down in the wiki but as a low priority14:40
lhLennie: +114:40
madrazrLennie: I have noted down14:40
lhmadrazr: whatcha think?14:40
solydzajsLennie: are you going to post notes from this meeting ?14:40
* lh notes madrazr has noted14:40
Lenniemadrazr, the waitinlist idea sounds nice but it's not really suited for GHOP14:40
madrazrlh: yes I agree14:40
madrazrLennie: yeah got it14:41
Lenniemadrazr, will you update the wiki, it's your design doc :)14:41
Lenniesolydzajs: yes14:41
madrazrLennie: yes I have to. I will be doing it :)14:41
solydzajsLennie: ok great14:41
Lenniemadrazr, awesome lets keep going then14:41
Lennieso a student said he wanted to claim a task14:41
Lennieand what's next?14:41
madrazrLennie: student works on the task14:41
madrazrand uploads his work as a file preferably (if this can be added in the timeline, issue 44 I guess)14:42
* lh goes to look at issue 4414:42
lhone quick note14:42
lhtask complete by times should be in hours. that way it's clear how long someone has to do something from the time the set was set as claimed.14:42
Lennielh: how's legal with that?14:42
madrazrLennie: lh said not to worry about legal issues for now, just go ahead and she will check with that14:43
lhLennie: with the hours to complete task? they're fine with that, their requirement is we need a time limit, how we do that they dont care14:43
madrazrLennie: it is said in the GHOP wiki14:43
Lennielh: talking about uploading :)14:43
Lenniemadrazr: I must have missed that, keep going14:43
lhLennie: source code, unknown, have to find out but i think they will be OK with it.14:43
lhin the cases of large files, then it is OK to include a note saying that the work for this task is housed here14:44
lhprovide a link14:44
Lennielh: we'll have to 1MB limit for GAE14:44
lhand that suffices as turning in the work. but only in cases where the system cannot handle the actual work submitted.14:44
Lenniemadrazr: So madrazr, I submit my work for review does something happen with the status of the task?14:44
lhin some cases, for example, work may be to correct all broken links on a wiki page. there is no work to upload then, so we just ask for a link to the corrected page with notes, e.g. Link A was broken, now points to, which is the correct link14:44
solydzajslh: if somebody cannot upload some work he should be able to link to it14:45
lhLennie: i can see presentations, etc. being too big for that upload limit14:45
SRabbelierLennie: we could store files in parts? :P14:45
lhsolydzajs: yes14:45
solydzajsSRabbelier: too much work14:45
lhSRabbelier: i love this idea for melange overall but agree with solydzajs that this is too ambitious for now14:45
madrazrSRabbelier: rather I will put the question differently14:45
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I think madrazr and Lennie should investigate this, rather than saying it's too much work right away, if it's at all possible to have something like that it could be very useful for Melange in general, right?14:46
* lh holds up small sign "we have 15 minutes left for this meeting"14:46
Lenniemadrazr: So madrazr, I submit my work for review does something happen with the status of the task?14:46
Lenniewe'll discuss files later!14:46
lhLennie: +114:46
madrazrLennie: no, just a notification is sent to who ever has subscirbed14:46
solydzajsSRabbelier: I think that uploading of work is low priority right now, we should focus first on getting tagging, tasks etc and then investigate upload14:47
lhLennie, madrazr: the way i see this working is14:47
Lenniemadrazr: So no NeedsReview status?14:47
lhstudent submits work for review, sets status to needsreview14:47
Lenniethat will help orgs track down what needs to be reviewed14:47
lhthis pings mentors subscribed and org admin regardless of being subscribed or not14:48
lhto go take a look at the work and review it14:48
madrazrLennie: Oh fine, I will note down that point. Did not think about it14:48
madrazrlh: ^14:48
lhmadrazr: kk, keep going14:48
Lenniemadrazr: Okay the works needs review14:48
Lenniemadrazr: two possible options, explain your ideas :)14:48
madrazrsome automagic stuff should work here, they are already discussed14:48
madrazrsetting restrictions to work on only 1 task per student and stuff14:49
madrazrfinally the public view14:49
madrazrevery one should be able to see all the tasks, and this view must have quite a good number of filters14:49
madrazrI will list the filters I have thought about till now14:49
madrazr1. By Organization. 2. Difficulty level. 3. Type of Task 4. State of Task 5. Time required for completing it14:50
madrazrNewly Added?14:50
madrazr6th one that is?14:50
lhmadrazr: newly added is a great one14:50
madrazrlh: Lennie: also filter by student?14:50
lhmadrazr: especially for "public" users - students will want to see what is new so they can decide what to work on14:50
solydzajsmadrazr: the resrtiction to work on one task at a time should be configurable via Program Settings14:50
Lenniemadrazr: explain?14:50
lhmadrazr: let's ask MatthewWilkes - that was never important to me14:51
solydzajsmadrazr: this is GHOP requirements but other program may have different role14:51
* MatthewWilkes tries to parse what the question is14:51
madrazrsolydzajs: ah Ok, but how do we implement it as a configurable option?14:51
madrazrMatthewWilkes: filter the tasks by students was the question14:51
solydzajsmadrazr: similar as we have it now for GSoC, let me explain14:51
madrazrMatthewWilkes: is it required?14:51
lhMatthewWilkes: would it be useful for you to be able to filter by student working on a particular task?14:51
Lenniemadrazr: it's in the program model, lets keep talking about filters14:51
madrazrsolydzajs: sure14:51
MatthewWilkesAs long as we can see our lists, it should be fine14:52
MatthewWilkesAn export in CSV format would be good14:52
solydzajsmadrazr: we have property where you can define how many proposals can student submit and it's 20 for GSoC14:52
madrazrMatthewWilkes: I am asking for general public view14:52
MatthewWilkesah, I see, not a big deal for me14:52
solydzajsmadrazr: we can reuse this property to say how many tasks can student work on at a time14:52
madrazrsolydzajs: Oh Ok got it.14:52
lhmadrazr: ah, that's a different question than the one i thought you were asking. i would say no, do not display who is working on what in a public view page.14:52
madrazrsolydzajs: is it also required to set no limit?14:52
lhno wait.14:52
MatthewWilkesThat view would only be useful for pimping a student's participation14:52
* lh needs to talk to legal about this14:52
solydzajsmadrazr: no limit of what ?14:53
madrazrlh: Oh Ok14:53
solydzajsmadrazr: oh tasks ?14:53
lhwe do need to publicize student participation, but it is tricky since they are minors. i will find out.14:53
madrazrsolydzajs: yes14:53
MatthewWilkesSo useful for picking grandprize winners or news stories, but I think we're fine doing that ourself14:53
solydzajsmadrazr: yep 0 is no limit14:53
madrazrsolydzajs: coolness!14:53
madrazrLennie: btw I am done with my huge huge huge story :P14:53
Lenniemadrazr: thanks give me a min to take it all in :)14:54
lhmadrazr: for public view, we should also be able to filter tasks by organizations, e.g. maybe i only want to see ghop tasks for melange, but not for plone14:54
* SRabbelier imitates the Lennie progress bar: stewing.... [========== ] 75% 14:54
madrazrLennie: TBH it is just 20% of the 7 pages notes I have written down from yesterday evening :P14:54
lhmadrazr: though some folks, like the press, will want to see all tasks and what is going on with them14:54
* lh notes that madrazr is a design machine14:54
Lennielh: see his listing of views by org is number 1`14:54
SRabbeliermadrazr: are they in English? :P14:54
madrazrlh: yes thats included, see the first filter option14:55
* lh reads scrollback14:55
lhyes very good sorry i missed that14:55
madrazrSRabbelier: yes, I can write tech things only in English :D14:55
madrazrlh: hope I get converted to coding machine too soon :P14:55
Lennieokay to summarize a bit it seems like the way to claim a task is a hot topic14:56
lhmadrazr: i have faith in you14:56
SRabbeliermadrazr: sweet :), makes it easier to put it on a wiki :)14:56
madrazrlh: thanks14:56
* madrazr listens to Lennie14:56
Lennieoh the world will end according to christel :)14:56
madrazrROFL :D14:56
* SRabbelier is confused14:56
* SRabbelier does not want to die :(14:57
lhlennie, christel the freenode admin?14:57
Lennieglobal notice14:57
SRabbelierwhy didn I get this notice :(14:57
lhme either14:57
lhLennie: apparently the world ends only for you14:57
MatthewWilkesMight be in a different window, I got it14:57
Lenniemadrazr will update the wiki and open up new ones where he finds necessary14:57
madrazrlh: SRabbelier: you are not my mentors thats why :P14:57
* SRabbelier nods sagely14:58
SRabbeliermadrazr: that must be it14:58
* lh nods with SRabbelier 14:58
madrazrHA HA :D14:58
Lennieso we can comment on it where we find necessary :)14:58
* lh likes this idea14:58
SRabbeliermadrazr: please to add wiki ToC thingies ktnx? :D14:58
LennieThere is one thing I would like to discuss about the workflow that I've missed14:58
Lennieor atleast something that is unclear to me14:58
Lenniewhen a student has submitted work14:59
Lenniethe tasks needsreview14:59
Lenniewe will allow for 3 possible outcomes of these (excluding a lazy org who takes no action)14:59
Lennie1. succeed student can claim another task14:59
Lennie2. Failure, the tasks needs some more work by the same student (possibly the NeedsWork tag)15:00
Lenniethe student cannot claim another task15:00
lhLennie: student cannot claim new task until state is set from needs review to closed15:00
* lh realizes this is what lennie said, shuts up15:00
Lennie3. complete failure orgs want someone else to try, putting it on reopen15:00
SRabbelierLennie: can we call state 3 EpicFailure? pretty please? with cherries on top? (A)15:01
lhLennie: yes.15:01
SRabbelierLennie: see, lh agrees! :P15:01
Lenniemadrazr, you got that :)?15:01
lhSRabbelier: no we cannot. these are kids. we want them to feel good.15:01
* SRabbelier pouts15:01
lhSRabbelier: pout all you want.15:01
madrazrLennie: I am reading 1 min15:01
madrazrLennie: I did not get your 3rd point15:01
madrazrexplain again please15:01
SRabbelierlh: :D you protect your kids, I know :)15:01
lhmy guests are falling asleep. :)15:02
MatthewWilkesLennie: State 2 also can go to extending the deadline by 24 hours15:02
lhSRabbelier: yes yes i do.15:02
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LennieMatthewWilkes, how about optional ammount of hours?15:02
MatthewWilkesI think it's 24 or nothing15:02
lhMatthewWilkes: it is 24 or nothing.15:02
Lennieshouldn't orgs be able to decide this?15:02
lhthe reason why is15:02
Lennie^_ ^15:02
lhso let's say i am flake smith15:02
lhi claim a task15:02
lhit has a time limit of 48 hours15:02
lh48 hours comes by15:02
lhmentor sets to needsreview15:02
lhmust see something within 24 hours15:03
lhi, flakey smith, do not submit anything15:03
lhmentor reopens taks15:03
Lennieyou lost me there...15:03
Lennie48h go by and then a MENTOR has to set it to needsreview?15:03
lhthis keeps students from claiming tasks and never doing anything about it15:03
madrazrme too :P15:03
MatthewWilkesI think "needsreview" was "ActionNeeded"15:03
lhMatthewWilkes: correct, sorry15:03
lhmadrazr, Lennie ^^15:03
LennieNeedsWork == ActionNeeded?15:04
madrazrlh: Ok15:04
* lh makes note, 4 cups of coffee is not enough15:04
lhneedswork = work submitted was good, but needs more15:04
lhactionneeded = where the heck is the work for this?15:04
Lenniethey both do a 24h extension?15:04
madrazrlh: shouldn't what you told be automated?15:04
lhneedswork = extension # of hours that the org wants15:04
lhmadrazr: the where the heck is the work for this should be automated, yes.15:04
* lh forgot we can now automate things. praise melange.15:05
Lennie[21:02:32] [@Lennie] shouldn't orgs be able to decide this?15:05
Lennie[21:02:33] [@lh] the reason why is15:05
Lennie[21:02:36] [@lh] no!15:05
SRabbelierlh: but ActionNeeded is just 24h extension?15:05
Lenniehmm, I was talking about option 2 where the work suckedd :P15:05
lhActionNeeded = 24 hours to turn something in, correct.15:05
Lennieand you said no15:05
MatthewWilkesHold on, ActionNeeded isn't always an extension15:05
MatthewWilkesIt means "24 hours before we close your ass down"15:05
lhMatthewWilkes: but technically that is a 24 hour extension. but your synopsis is correct.15:05
MatthewWilkesthat can happen automatically at T-24hours15:05
SRabbelierno wait15:06
madrazrlh: MatthewWilkes: 24hrs is a hard set limit, or mentors/OA's can decide it?15:06
lhLennie: ok, now i see what you are saying. it is up to the orgs to say how much more time to give a student where the work does not meet expectations but is getting there15:06
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes:  is talking about setting to ActionNeeded at T-2415:06
MatthewWilkesLast year we had no automatics, so he way we did extensions was to set ActionNeeded later15:06
lhmadrazr: in the "we are going to shut your ass down" case, it's 24 hours. period.15:06
SRabbelierlh: is talking about setting to ActionNeeded at T015:06
lhNeedsMore = org sets time limit.15:07
Lenniesummary: Student does not submit work before deadline, ActionNeeded+24h extension?15:07
lhActionNeeded = give me something within 24 hours or this task isn't yours anymore15:07
lhLennie: correct.15:07
LennieStudent submits work that's not there yet, X hours extension decided by the one reviewing the work15:07
MatthewWilkesSounds good15:07
madrazrlh: Lennie: cool!15:07
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lhLennie: excellent summary of my disjointed thoughts, thank you.15:08
madrazrOh we scared him ^ :D15:08
lhmelange is not for the faint of heart. nor are gsoc and ghop.15:08
madrazrhe was one of the students whom I had tricked to contribute to Melange :P15:08
lhmadrazr: crap.15:09
lhmak89, come back!!15:09
lhwe will send chocolates.15:09
madrazrlh: anyways continue15:09
* SRabbelier chuckles15:09
lhmadrazr: i didn't have anything else to say.15:09
lhLennie: your meeting, what next?15:09
* Lennie grabs his notebook15:09
Lennieah yeah, priorities15:10
Lenniewe'll talk more about that later on15:10
Lenniebut what we'd expect after your project is the following15:10
madrazrLennie: yeah?15:10
LennieGHOP workflow implementation including notificiation where needed15:11
Lennie+ access controls for the views that come with it15:11
Lennieincluding the X maximum number of claimed tasks15:11
Lennieand the discussed public view :)15:11
Lennie*including the X maximum number of claimed tasks per student15:12
Lenniethose are the priorities :D15:12
Lenniewe can do feature fest later on15:12
lhX maximum number of claimed tasks per student = 1 at a time15:12
Lennieyeah for GHOP15:12
Lenniebut it's a setting :)15:12
madrazrlh: customizable in LH View page :P15:13
lhLennie: ah, brilliant. dank u well.15:13
lhmadrazr: beautiful.15:13
Lennieone l too much, but thanks :D15:13
lhi tried.15:13
Lennielh: I'm correct in saying we want something that can run GSoC atleast as good as last year with the ability to grow into more right?15:14
SRabbelierlh: s/well/wel/, *ducks*15:14
lhLennie: correct.15:14
lhLennie: where gsoc here means ghop right? :)15:14
Lennieo yeah :P15:14
* SRabbelier rofls15:14
lhi knew what you meant.15:14
Lenniemadrazr, any questions now?15:14
SRabbelierLennie: be glad lh has amazing mind-reading powerzz beyond all that is known to man! :P15:14
madrazrLennie: there were around 10 I had written down, let me see which are not answered yet15:15
lhSRabbelier: that's because i am a girl dude. comes with the territory.15:15
madrazrLennie: 1 min15:15
Lennieokay awesome madrazr15:15
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MatthewWilkeslh: I call sexism!15:15
SRabbelierlh: ah, made of win then, we need more of these girl wonders! :P15:15
madrazrQ1. Should we allow students to add arbit tags?15:15
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: bewarlol15:16
madrazralso what about mentors?15:16
lhMatthewWilkes: okay fine, it is not because i am a girl, it's because i am a people geek. happy now.15:16
MatthewWilkeslh: Very :)15:16
lhmadrazr: what about them?15:16
lhMatthewWilkes: done then, yw.15:16
SRabbelierlh: in that case, we need more of these people geek wonders! :P15:16
lhSRabbelier: good luck, i have no idea how i got them.15:16
madrazrlh: should we allow students to add arbitrary tags? the text box for tags I was telling in the beginning15:16
lhmadrazr: no i do not think we should allow students to add arbitrary tags.15:17
lhMatthewWilkes, solydzajs: you've also done this before. thoughts?15:17
* lh has visions of awful tags like "FuckYou" popping into her head15:17
madrazrlh: should we allow mentors to add those tags?15:17
lhmadrazr: yes, definitely.15:17
solydzajslh: we shouldn't allow students to add arbitrary tags15:17
SRabbelierlh: proposed tags then?15:17
SRabbelierlh: that mentors can they click on so that theyƕe added?15:18
madrazrsolydzajs: Ok cool thanks15:18
lhSRabbelier: this is possible, but what is the use case for students adding tags?15:18
SRabbelierlh: wiki style ftw15:18
lhSRabbelier: i think this just creates more work for the mentors to approve these tags15:18
solydzajsyes lets keep it simple15:18
lhSRabbelier: i think this just adds complexity while not adding a lot of value. if a student really wants to see a tag added, they can ask a mentor to do it.15:18
SRabbelierlh: ok :)15:18
madrazrready for Q2? :P15:19
* lh thinks mentors did a really good job of tagging before and adding tags when needed and asked to 15:19
lhmadrazr: go15:19
madrazrlh: how should we handle mentors assignment to tasks? Should org admins be able to assign them as soon as the task is created?15:20
madrazralso like in GSoC, should mentors be able to click a button reading, "I am willing to mentor this task"15:20
lhmadrazr: optimal is that the task is assigned to whomever creates it.15:20
lhso if i am a mentor15:20
lhi want to submit a certain task15:20
lhmuch easier if it is just assigned to me15:20
lhhowever, org admin should also be able to assign a task to a particular mentor15:21
lhand in this case15:21
lhi am not sure that we need to have mentors volunteer on a per task basis.15:21
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MatthewWilkesI'm with solydzajs - students don't need to tag tasks15:21
lhLennie: is now a good time to bring up autoupload of a task list?15:21
Lennielh: rather not :)15:22
lha lot of folks wanted to create tasks list in a spreadsheet and then do bulk upload. this may or may not be possible.15:22
lhLennie: done, i am shutting the f up15:22
Lennielh: add it to the wiki please15:22
lhLennie: will do.15:22
Lennielh: so we can refine and discuss it there, we are talking about task mentoring15:22
Lennieeach task should have a mentor right? Some sort of guidance/contact point to which students can go15:23
madrazrlh: it is better to put it on the roadmap, along with all the Calendar, GDocs intergration stuff I think15:23
madrazrLennie: solydzajs: SRabbelier: what do you think? ^15:23
lhSo org admins for ghop should just be able to assign tasks to a mentor. the mentor step to claim willingness to mentor is extra overhead which is not necessary here i think15:23
lhmadrazr: will do.15:23
lhmadrazr: this is pretty ghop specific though. just a thought.15:23
madrazrlh: Ok fine. I will put it in GHOP doc then15:24
Lennieput it under GHOP for now15:24
solydzajswe should think about uploading CSV by organization and processing it with Jobs later15:24
solydzajsthat way we can solve bulk upload of tasks15:24
solydzajsjust a thought15:24
lhmadrazr: i will add notes there.15:24
solydzajsbut I think it's important15:24
lhsolydzajs: agreed. will add notes to wiki.15:25
Lenniejust not in the scope of this meeting15:25
Lennieeach task should have a mentor right? Some sort of guidance/contact point to which students can go15:25
lhLennie: agreed, sorry i added this distraction. let's move on.15:25
madrazrLennie: it is an NTH?15:25
lhLennie: that is correct.15:25
Lenniemadrazr, yes certainly it is not a <MUST>15:25
Lenniebut high up on the NTH :)15:25
madrazrLennie: cool15:25
madrazrheh OK :D15:25
Lenniesince tasks can become cumbersome15:26
Lenniemadrazr, all tasks should have a mentor assigned upon creation15:26
Lenniejust to make it clear it seems like we decided on three power levels within orgs at the start of the meeting15:26
Lennieorg admins: Can create task and assign to everyone15:27
Lenniementors with some special power: create task assigned only to themself15:27
Lenniementors: can be a mentor cannot create task15:27
lhLennie: i think we should only have one class of mentors. likely easier.15:28
Lenniethis 3-way split seemed to be what was suggested?15:28
Lennieall mentors should be able to create tasks then?15:28
Lennieonly assigned to themself15:28
Lennieor none?15:28
madrazrLennie: I think MatthewWilkes suggested that tasks can be created by all mentors but must be approved by org admins15:28
LennieMatthewWilkes, is that a correct summary of what you want?15:28
* lh read it that way before15:28
Lennie*blames language barrier*, I brought it up for a reason :)15:29
Lenniewhile we wait for a response15:29
LennieI have one more possible issue to address15:29
MatthewWilkesLennie: Yes,that's right15:29
madrazrLennie: yeah?15:29
Lennieso we'll give mentors the ability to create a task15:29
Lenniethat needs approval by org admins15:29
solydzajsorgs needs to have a bulk accept button for tasks then15:30
madrazrsolydzajs: noted15:30
Lennielh: +1 on...15:30
lhLennie: +1 on bulk accept for tasks by org admins. for example15:30
lhif you know Mentor 1 really well, why not just bulk accept? but if you dont know mentor 2 as well, you may want to review all tasks submitted by her on a task by task basis15:31
Lennieso you want the ability to bulk accept per mentor15:31
Lenniethat's more specific than what was suggested :)15:31
lhLennie: if it's too hard to do it that way, then don't do it.15:31
kblinLennie: checkboxes?15:31
lhkblin: good suggestion15:32
MatthewWilkescheckboxes would be my preferred option15:32
Lenniekblin, lovely15:32
MatthewWilkesbetter than per-mentoer15:32
lhactually i think it's a great idea to do both15:32
lhfor example15:32
lhcheckboxes for all tasks15:32
lhwith a button15:32
lhselect all tasks for mentor = name15:32
* Lennie notes that whatever solves issue 201 must be able to display HTML elements as well15:32
lhthen you can bulk accept on a per mentor basis15:32
lhbut still easily do individual reviews15:33
lhwould this be reasonable?15:33
madrazrLennie: is not possible to add checkboxes until 201 is solved?15:33
Lenniemadrazr, it is15:33
* lh goes to take another look at issue 20115:33
SRabbelierlh: ajaxy talbe views15:33
Lenniemadrazr, just saying that the ajaxy list should not break this functionality :)15:33
lhSRabbelier: i knew it.15:33
madrazrLennie: ah Ok15:33
madrazrlh: you must be knowing. This is Melange's most popular issue :P15:34
lhmadrazr: it's my most popular issue too.15:34
Lennieyeah, I've asked Merio to reply to the latest thread ont he mailing list about it15:34
Lenniethis acceptance list15:34
Lennieshould be high up the list of things to havee15:35
Lenniebut should not be a showstopper :D15:35
Lennieworkflow basics go first afaiac15:35
madrazrLennie: Ok15:35
Lennieas far as I am concerned :)15:35
Lenniewe'll need to define these priorities within the next weeks15:36
madrazrsure, I have noted down the priorities you mentioned very early in this meeting :P15:36
madrazrLennie: Ok15:36
lhLennie: correct. if a problem can be solved by social means, in my book any code becomes a nice to have.15:36
Lennieone last issue I wanted to address15:36
Lenniewe have students15:36
Lenniestating that they want to claim a task15:36
Lenniewhich locks out any other student from claiming the same task15:36
Lenniehow will we safeguard against annoying students who keep claiming the same tasks that orgs dont want that person to take anymore?15:37
Lennie(this is why I liked the waiting list idea)15:37
lhLennie: that's a social problem. mentors have to talk to the students.15:38
lhin this case, here's where the grand prize comes in handy15:38
Lennieokay you want to leave that to social conventions?15:38
lhif you are being annoying and not doing what your mentors ask, chances are pretty darn good that you aren't going to get the grand prize. so why would you piss off your mentors?15:38
lhyou are disincentivized to do so.15:38
lhLennie: i think we can leave that to social convention, yes.15:38
Lennieokay fine15:39
SRabbelierlh: what about destructive students in general, do we need some sort of "ban from program" feature?15:39
LennieSRabbelier: those rare cases we can handle through datastore I think15:39
madrazrlh: but still, by locking down other students are at loss15:39
lhSRabbelier: good question. they could always just create a new google account and come back. let it ride. solve socially.15:39
LennieSRabbelier: put them on inactive :)15:39
Lennieand idd google accounts are free :P15:39
madrazrlh: we need some way of stopping the annoying students15:39
SRabbelierlh: ok, for sure :)15:39
Lenniewe are not IP-banning :D15:39
solydzajsyep, we didn't have that kind of problem in last year GHOP15:39
lhmadrazr: it's only one task that is effected. it is suboptimal, but unlikely to happen also.15:40
madrazrLennie: LoL!15:40
solydzajsif I remember correctly15:40
Lenniemadrazr: we can ban users in melange dont worry15:40
Lennieany more questions madrazr?15:40
madrazrLennie: yes 2 more15:40
madrazrlh: do we have upper age limit for students?15:41
Lennie*do we want to enforce this limit15:41
Lenniethrough code15:41
lhmadrazr: one sec15:41
Lennieyou mean?15:41
madrazrLennie: if yes that is15:41
madrazrLennie: If upper limit exists, I wanted to ask that question15:41
solydzajsi dont think it does15:42
* Lennie is back in 1 min15:42
lhmadrazr: have to be at least 13 years of age and enrolled in pre-university educational program, we do not have upper age limit afaict in rules but still looking15:42
Lenniedo we want to enforce the lower age limit?15:43
Lenniethrough code15:43
Lennieinstead of running reports15:43
madrazrLennie: yes I think15:43
madrazrLennie: it is mentioned in the Wiki page15:43
madrazrLennie: GHOP Melange should have a special configuration page where you can setup dates like : dates: when contest begins , when contest ends, what is the age (range) of the students that can participate for example: thirteen (13) years of age or older on November 27, 2007 (this date would be setup in configuration page and once student fill in profile data you can automagically check whether he can participate in contest15:43
lhLennie: you have to, no choice15:43
Lennieso that's a yes :)15:44
Lennieanything else madrazr?15:44
madrazrlast question ...15:44
madrazrWhat should list of participating org list contain15:45
madrazrlike for GSoC we had links pointing to ideas page15:45
lhmadrazr: a simple overview page would be good, which also has a list of tasks on it.15:46
lhsomething like the organization home pages i would think, but there may be a much better way to do this15:46
madrazrlh: you want to point those list items to somewhere?15:46
Lennielist of tasks I guess15:47
madrazrLennie: filtered by Organization?15:47
lhmadrazr: list of tasks --> each tasks listing15:47
Lennieyes for the specific org you clicked on15:47
lhthink this page15:47
tpb<> (at
lhbut instead of a list of accepted projects on it, there's a task list15:48
lhwe would also need a page doing nothing but listing all tasks, an aggregated list from each org15:48
madrazrlh: fine15:48
madrazrLennie: I am done with my questions ...15:48
Lennieany questions from the audience then? SRabbelier, solydzajs, lh15:48
Lennieor anybody else for that matter :D15:49
* lh is hapy15:49
lhhappy even15:49
SRabbelierLennie: looks like you guys have this worked out :D15:49
LennieSRabbelier: not there yet, but you cant do it all in one go15:49
Lenniemadrazr, looking awesome!15:49
SRabbelierLennie: the part that we just talked about that is15:49
madrazrSRabbelier: yes, you know right, what Lennie is ... An horror movie actor :P15:49
madrazrhe used to scare me :D15:49
LennieMatthewWilkes, you has a happy :D?15:50
Lenniemadrazr, when will you have updated the wiki? 48h good enough?15:50
MatthewWilkesLennie: I am indeed!15:50
madrazrLennie: I think so15:50
madrazrLennie: hopefully nothing else comes in between15:50
LennieI will post the meeting notes within the next 48h since I'm quite busy tomorrow15:51
* lh will get a meeting with legal this week15:51
Lenniemadrazr, lets hope not I like to see the updates :)15:51
Lenniedont forget15:51
Lenniewe got a conference call tomorrow @ 18.00 UTC15:51
solydzajsLennie: no more questions from me :-)15:51
Lennieall students are welcome to join in :)15:51
madrazrLennie: sure, but PulseAudio sucks!!!15:51
* madrazr runs15:51
LennieSkype kinda required :D15:51
madrazrLennie: LoL! kinda?15:52
LennieI hereby close this meeting, next meeting about GHOP will be schelduled within next two weeks (probably sooner depending on progress/discussion within the Wiki)15:52
solydzajsok so the meeting is over ?15:53
lhLennie: i will make it as long as i am not in los angeles15:53
Lennielh: okay15:53
Lennielh: you are open for mails by madrazr right?15:53
lhLennie: always.15:53
Lennielh: good15:53
madrazrlh: awesome!15:53
lhLennie: can't guarantee that i will check mail while in LAX, but will totally try15:53
solydzajsok ttyl guys15:53
lhi hate to be a pita15:53
* madrazr wishes to visit LA once at least :P15:53
lhbut whenever possible15:53
Lenniettyl solydzajs15:53
lhemails on list!15:53
lhi am not the only one who knows stuff15:53
lhMatthewWilkes knows stuff too. so do a lot of other ghop people15:53
Lennieyeah but you are the customer :D15:54
Lenniesome questions should go to you15:54
madrazrsolydzajs: thanks a lot15:54
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Lennieothers should be on the list15:54
Lennieatleast that's my pov15:54
lhLennie: i am going to invite them to join the discussions :)15:54
Lenniemadrazr, we'll have to discuss tags later15:54
lhit's on my to do list15:54
madrazrLennie: Oh yeah15:54
madrazrLennie: and work submissions too15:55
Lenniemadrazr, having meetings +2h is not productive15:55
Lennieheck +1h is close to losing attention :)15:55
MatthewWilkesLA is nice - there's a restaurant that does a cookie pizza15:55
Lenniemadrazr, okay noted15:55
MatthewWilkesi.e. a pizza with a cookie base and sweet toppings15:55
* lh is going for class reunion15:55
lhokay folks, i gotta jam. sorry. have houseguests.15:55
lhwill take care of my action items.15:55
madrazrLennie: I already lost it quite a few times :P15:55
MatthewWilkeshave fun, lh15:55
Lenniewe'll have to wait for legal about submission15:55
lhMatthewWilkes: thank you15:55
madrazrlh: see you thanks a lot15:55
madrazrlh: have a nice day!15:55
lhLennie: i can have an answer for you on that stuff in days15:55
madrazrLennie: yeah Ok15:56
lhmadrazr: thank you, sleep well my frined15:56
lhthanks all!15:56
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madrazrLennie: we will discuss about tags whenever you are free15:56
Lennieslap me tomorrow :)15:57
Lenniethen we can discuss when :P15:57
madrazrLennie: LoL! :D15:57
LennieI have other issues to deal with atm :D15:57
madrazrLennie: Ok15:57
madrazrLennie: other as in? outside Melange?15:57
madrazrLennie: Ok15:57
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madrazrsolydzajs: how about starting a common calendar for all Melange meetings? or as SRabbelier suggested the other day use the GOSPO calendar?16:09
solydzajslh: replied to your email16:09
madrazrSRabbelier: Lennie: ^ if you are around16:09
solydzajsmadrazr: yes like I said it's on my todo list, be patient16:09
SRabbeliermadrazr: I like :)16:09
madrazrsolydzajs: Oh sorry for being impatient16:09
* madrazr wants to steal some patience from SRabbelier :P16:10
* dr__house hands madrazr some patience pills!16:10
madrazrdr__house: no I know how to take it. I will steal from SRabbelier :D16:10
dr__housebtw, I'd like to introduce myself as madrazr's "No Power" friend :P16:10
SRabbeliermadrazr: Heh, I don have a lot :P16:10
SRabbeliermadrazr: like Ando before he became the crimson arc? :P16:11
madrazrSRabbelier: what ever you have is enough already :P16:11
madrazrSRabbelier: whats that?16:11
madrazrdr__house: Lennie is not around I guess, he was the one who named you as my "No power" friend :P16:12
SRabbeliermadrazr: you don watch Heroes?16:12
madrazrSRabbelier: no16:12
SRabbeliermadrazr: for shame!16:12
dr__housemadrazr: too bad :P16:12
madrazrSRabbelier: LoL!16:12
madrazrdr__house: you watch?16:12
dr__houseSRabbelier: he doesn't watch TV, he is insanely workaholic16:12
dr__housemadrazr: not Heroes16:13
madrazrdr__house: stupid16:13
* SRabbelier chuckles16:13
dr__houseSRabbelier: yeah that too16:13
Lenniehi mister no power :D16:14
dr__houseLennie: hi16:15
madrazrLennie: LoL!!!16:15
Lenniedr house?16:15
Lennieawesome :D16:15
LennieCan I be Chase :P?16:15
dr__houseLennie: I am a huge fan16:15
Lennieso am I :D16:15
dr__houseLennie: sure :D16:15
Lenniethe whole world lies!16:15
dr__houseLennie: who's Cameron ;)16:16
Lennielh :)16:16
dr__houseLennie: LOL!16:16
Lennieor she can be thirtheen :D16:16
* dr__house searches for a Cuddy on the channel ;)16:16
madrazrSRabbelier: you too House? :P16:16
Lennielh can be cuddy too, she's can be the boss :D16:17
Lennieversatile lh :)16:17
dr__houseLennie: LOL!!:D:D16:17
dr__houseLennie: too bad someone had already taken drhouse and drHouse :( so I had to settle with the awkward dr__house16:17
madrazrLennie: I am just going thru the logs, as to what to write in Notes. Hopefully I won't go mad and write this discussion of yours about House too :P16:18
dr__housemadrazr: how much more mad can you get?16:18
madrazrdr__house: no actually __ is magic16:18
madrazrdr__house: Python ftw :P16:18
SRabbeliermadrazr: yup, I watch House too :P16:18
madrazrdr__house: but it should have been __drhouse__ actually :P16:18
madrazrSRabbelier: LoL! Ok. This becomes a Melange House gang then.16:19
SRabbeliermadrazr: lol :D16:19
madrazrdr__house: first start contributing to Melange :P16:19
Lenniemadrazr, you are making notes?16:19
Lenniemadrazr, as in I dont have to post them16:19
madrazrLennie: no no, I meant the design things16:19
dr__housemadrazr: I thought people on this channel wished for Melange's success :P16:19
madrazrLennie: to be put up on the wiki16:20
Lenniemadrazr, okay :)16:20
dr__housemadrazr: and you are asking me to contribute :P16:20
madrazrdr__house: Oh no, I realize now! Thanks goodness. Melange is saved.16:20
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dr__housemoreover, I am not a champion of multitasking like you, madrazr16:22
madrazrdr__house: Ok enough period16:23
* dr__house senses embarrassment in madrazr's words :P16:23
dr__houseok enough of spamming the channel16:24
* dr__house returns to work :P16:24
madrazrdr__house: good to know16:25
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Lenniemadrazr, ttyl :016:47
madrazrLennie: good night16:47
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MatthewWilkesSRabbelier: I've just been playing with Melange a bit re functional testing.  I've managed to get a setup going where there's a testcase which causes melange to start up a dev_appserver that everything's importable from and serves on 8080, but uses an ephemeral datastore.  (doesn't touch the existing user's one)17:09
MatthewWilkesSRabbelier: Is that something that might end up being useful?17:09
MatthewWilkesSRabbelier: looks like
tpbTitle: #467028 by Matthew Wilkes (matthewwilkes) - Pastie (at
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SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: sounds cute17:18
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: but, isn there an option to dev_appserver to specify which datastore to use?17:18
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: e.g., --datastore_path or such17:19
* SRabbelier is off to bed17:26
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jamtodaySRabbelier: there's history_path and datastore_path.17:56
MatthewWilkesjamtoday: Yes, but this sets the datastore to be a NamedTemporaryFile on each invocation of the unittest, there's no command line options, and no starting of a second process just to do ftests18:03
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