Monday, 2008-11-10

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tlarsensolydzajs: Good afternoon.11:39
solydzajstlarsen: Hi there.11:39
solydzajstlarsen: conference call in 20min right ?11:39
solydzajstlarsen: I deployed latest version of Melange to melange-dev.appspot.com11:40
tlarsensolydzajs: OK.11:43
tlarsensolydzajs: We need to work out some sort of release process for each of these 2-week sprints.11:44
tlarsenI would like to start branching, maybe on Friday, for each demo.11:44
tlarsenWe have *lots* of commits on the weekend and Monday morning.  :)11:44
solydzajstlarsen: yes I agree. That's a good idea11:45
tlarsenIt looks like our sprints are going to be 2 weeks each.11:45
solydzajstlarsen: can you mention that during conference call too ?11:45
tlarsenAs for what to demo, we had a *lot* of technical debt and spent a lot of time refactoring.  That took longer than we expected.11:46
solydzajsYes correct11:46
solydzajsbtw Sverre will be online in 5-10 minutes11:46
tlarsenAlso, I spent too much time trying to get the dynamic Question stuff working, so I didn't finish the "hacked' Terms of Service feature.11:46
tlarsenI need a day or two more, now that I've figured out how to do it.11:46
solydzajstlarsen: I have just as_table to commit, and I will move to Invitations11:47
solydzajssince Invitation will be used everywhere11:47
solydzajsand are also needed for Clubs11:47
tlarsenI will add a ReferenceProperty to HomeSettings that points to a "terms" Quiz.11:48
solydzajsok sounds good11:48
tlarsenI think we need to do a little bit of refactoring around link_name and partial_path first, though.11:48
tlarsenI think we need a Linkable class that contains those two fields.11:48
solydzajstlarsen: Sorry for not yet replying to your post about nick_name and link_name confusion I will reply today11:49
tlarsenWe have them and their descriptions spread out in too many places.11:49
tlarsenThe PolyModel stuff still works even if there are intermediate classes.11:49
solydzajsyep11:50
solydzajsI gonna move all the Person properties to Role model11:50
solydzajsand delete Person model tho11:50
solydzajssince we don't need both of them right ?11:51
tlarsenCorrect.11:52
solydzajsok.11:53
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SRabbelier1tlarsen: do you have skype installed yet? (www.skype.com)11:55
solydzajstlarsen: ok started on that already. Should be ready soon. Most of the fixes will be in __doc__ tho :-)11:55
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solydzajsSRabbelier1: are we using free Skype to Skype conference calls or should we call this number that was listed in meeting information ?11:56
SRabbelier1solydzajs: skype please11:57
Lennieevening :)11:57
Lennieatleast for me11:57
solydzajsSRabbelier1: I guess it's up to Chris :-)11:57
SRabbelier1solydzajs: He said that 'Skype is good' during the meeting11:57
solydzajsLennie: hi :-) evening here too :-)11:57
solydzajstlarsen: do you have Chris on Skype ?11:57
SRabbelier1so I guess we need to know if Todd is good to go11:57
solydzajsyep11:59
SRabbelier1I see a cdibona on skype12:00
durin42heh, skype call?12:00
SRabbelier1durin42: yes12:00
SRabbelier1durin42: you got an invite12:00
* durin42 has a job and therefore can't do skype12:00
durin42SRabbelier1: no, I didn't.12:00
SRabbelier1durin42: yes you did :P12:01
durin42SRabbelier1: um?12:01
SRabbelier1durin42: at your [email protected] address12:01
durin42SRabbelier1: there's nothing on my calendar at this time12:01
SRabbelier1durin42: weird12:01
durin42and I can't do skype during the day anyway, seeing as I have a job12:01
SRabbelier1durin42: hehe12:01
durin42job gets in the way quite a lot12:02
SRabbelier1durin42: quit the job, work for google!12:02
solydzajsyep but invite was send to you :-)12:02
durin42never saw such an invite, alas12:02
* SRabbelier1 is looking at "Awaiting response: [email protected]"12:03
durin42SRabbelier1: Wouldn't mind that, but I'd have to actually have the job first12:03
solydzajsups12:03
solydzajsduring12:03
durin42SRabbelier1: resend the invite12:03
solydzajsit's during12:03
solydzajsChris typed it wrong12:03
durin42ha12:03
SRabbelier1durin42: nah: [email protected]12:03
SRabbelier1durin42: I just typoed12:03
durin42SRabbelier1: hm, looking in the spam box12:04
durin42or maybe gmail intercepted it and I never saw it12:04
solydzajstlarsen: ready for Skype call ?12:04
durin42weird, calendar doesn't see it either12:04
durin42what's the call about?12:05
tlarsenWe are already on the call.12:05
tlarsenDial-in number:866.457.464612:06
tlarsenInternational Dial-in number:617.224.464612:06
SRabbelier1tlarsen: I thought we were using skype....12:06
solydzajstlarsen: ok.12:07
tlarsenNo call.12:07
tlarsenChris will talk to us again in 2 weeks.12:07
SRabbelier1tlarsen: no call, wah?12:08
SRabbelier1tlarsen: what happend?12:08
tlarsenWe don't really have something to show him, at least not what he was expecting.12:08
SRabbelier1tlarsen: http://srabbelier-melange.appspot.com/host/create_invite12:08
tlarsenHe isn't really thrilled, but I attempted to explain.12:08
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SKu> (at srabbelier-melange.appspot.com)12:08
SRabbelier1tlarsen: you have been ill the past week12:08
SRabbelier1tlarsen: and Pawel has been busy with other things12:08
tlarsenYeah, I know, and we are a bit disorganized.12:08
tlarsenSo, we need to talk about this next 2-week interval.12:09
tlarsenI am feeling better, by the way. :)12:09
SRabbelier1tlarsen: so why not now?12:09
SRabbelier1tlarsen: he doens't want to know why we're not done and stuff?12:09
solydzajstlarsen: ok one second trying to call but need to find keypad in Skype12:09
tlarsenSRabbelier1: He expects me to handle it.12:10
tlarsenNo, he does not want to talk today.12:10
SRabbelier1tlarsen: ok12:10
tlarsensolydzajs: There will be no call with Chris today.12:10
* SRabbelier1 goes -_-"12:10
solydzajstlarsen: oh ok. So I don't have to call anymore :-)12:10
tlarsenSRabbelier1: You have to make me a developer before I can use that link.  :)12:10
tlarsensolydzajs: No, no call today.12:10
SRabbelier1tlarsen: sure12:10
SRabbelier1tlarsen: you need to create a profile first then :P12:10
tlarsensolydzajs: However, we need to try to get more organized.  I don't like to disappoint Chris more than once. :)12:11
tlarsenI did, but I am not a Developer.12:11
SRabbelier1tlarsen: afaik I've been the only one working on the Request stuff we promised to show him today12:11
solydzajstlarsen: ok, so he's disappointed ?12:11
SRabbelier1tlarsen: I got a lot done, but I can't pull this on my own...12:11
tlarsensolydzajs: Ummm, yeah.  He's my boss, so I can handle it.12:12
tlarsenSRabbelier1: No one is asking you to.12:12
tlarsenSRabbelier1: we just need to get a little more organized, and solydzajs and I were talking about that earlier on the channel.12:12
SRabbelier1tlarsen: what do we need to change?12:12
tlarsenSRabbelier1: Since we know we are going to have a meeting with him every two weeks, I want to start cutting a release branch before the meeting.12:12
tlarsenSRabbelier1: I need time to experiment with what we are going to show him, rather than have a pile of commits happen the weekend before the Monday meeting.12:13
solydzajstlarsen: agreed on that.12:13
SRabbelier1tlarsen: a release branch? dear god12:13
solydzajsso we freeze stuff on Friday and have a discussion on Friday what to show and list the changes that are really important12:14
tlarsensolydzajs: Yes.12:14
solydzajs+1 on that12:14
SRabbelier1-1 on that12:14
SRabbelier1but eh12:14
SRabbelier1I'll deal12:14
durin42O12:14
tlarsensolydzajs: We freeze on Friday at some set time (it could be AM on Friday for me, for example, and I would cut the branch).12:14
durin42I think that's a good idea, honestly12:14
solydzajstlarsen: ok sounds good.12:14
SRabbelier1what's the intention of the branch?12:14
durin42demos need to be previewed12:14
tlarsensolydzajs: Then, we would have an IRC meeting to go over the progress.12:15
SRabbelier1do we keep it after the demo12:15
SRabbelier1or can we throw it away after the demo12:15
tlarsenSRabbelier1: we can delete the branch after the demo.12:15
durin42SRabbelier1: so we can keep committing to trunk after the demo12:15
SRabbelier1tlarsen: ok, then I'm +012:15
tlarsenSRabbelier1: but, it costs nothing to keep them.12:15
solydzajsSRabbelier1: branch can be also a revision number for us :-)12:15
tlarsendurin42: Yes, commits to trunk/ will be continuous.12:15
tlarsendurin42: The branch will be stabilized for the demo.12:15
durin42tlarsen: yeah, my sentence came out all garbled12:15
durin42right12:15
LenniePersonally speaking, I think that's good for the executives ^^12:15
tlarsendurin42: We can fix some bugs in trunk/ and cherry-pick the changes into the branch, but that's it.12:16
SRabbelier1tlarsen: nono, other way around12:16
SRabbelier1tlarsen: you fix the bugs in the branch, and merge/cherry-pick into master12:16
SRabbelier1tlarsen: you can't properly test your fixes if you're doing them on master12:16
tlarsenSRabbelier1: Either way, up-integrate, down-integrate, I don't really care.12:16
SRabbelier1tlarsen: since it might have a major rehaul or whanot12:16
tlarsenSRabbelier1: as long as fixes made in the branch end up back in trunk/12:17
tlarsenLennie: Yes, I didn't want to waste Chris' time this morning being partially prepared.12:17
SRabbelier1tlarsen: right12:17
tlarsenAdmittedly, I have not given the amount of time to Melange that I needed to these past two weeks.12:18
SRabbelier1tlarsen: right12:18
solydzajstlarsen: ok I think we should spend some time today to schedule what we want to do in upcoming 1,5 week, then leave 0,5 week for polishing and fixing.12:18
tlarsenI was sick for a week, and then the contractors (*all of them*!) decided to show up at the job site.12:18
tlarsensolydzajs: Agreed.  We have some *bad* technical debt that we need to get rid of right away.12:18
tlarsensolydzajs: Then, we need to stop major refactoring for a while.12:18
solydzajstlarsen: I totally understand, I was not so active lately either, but that should change now.12:19
durin42I've gotten hgsubversion to a point where I don't want to build some of the new features, so I'll be spending more time on testing melange12:19
durin42(don't want to build them for now, that is)12:19
tlarsensolydzajs: we turned off all of the phone ringers in the entire house, except for one turned down quiet at my wife's desk.  :)12:19
solydzajstlarsen: :-) wow12:19
tlarsensolydzajs: She is going to screen *all* of the calls and contractor visits to the guest house front door.  It has been maddening for the phone to ring or the door to knock every 15 minutes.12:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: what do you mean with a "*bad* technical debt"?12:20
tlarsenSRabbelier1: we have some stuff that touches nearly all the code that we really need to fix now.12:20
tlarsenSRabbelier1: the link_name, partial_path stuff.12:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: mhhh... but that's not technically difficult12:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: it's just a rename12:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: it can be done in 5 minutes12:21
tlarsenSRabbelier1: that is not what "technical debt" means.12:21
solydzajstlarsen: good, otherwise you won't have time for coding at all :-)12:21
SRabbelier1tlarsen: ok, mhh, I don't understand then I think12:21
tlarsenSRabbelier1: it doesn't mean it is technically difficult, it just means that it was done hacky, or is being ignored, and it is going to cause other features to be more difficult to implement later.12:21
SRabbelier1tlarsen: aah, yes, 'code cruft/rot', right?12:21
tlarsenSRabbelier1: my proposal is to insert a Linkable Model class in the hierarchy that contains link_path and link_id fields.12:22
tlarsenSRabbelier1: We have this concept, and the comments, duplicated in three Model classes currently.12:22
SRabbelier1tlarsen: right, I replied to your mail12:22
SRabbelier1tlarsen: I am +1 on creating one for Linkname12:22
SRabbelier1tlarsen: but -0 on one for partial_path, I don't think we'll have many others using it12:23
SRabbelier1and if we do, there's always time to do it then12:23
tlarsenSRabbelier1: I think that we have so many entities that get referred to by a complex path, like google/gsoc2009/asf/faqs, that it is a fundamental property of our data model.12:24
tlarsenClasses always have the option *not* to inherit from Linkable.12:24
SRabbelier1tlarsen: ok, do you want users to have a partial_path too then?12:24
solydzajsSRabbelier1: no I think users should only have link_name12:25
SRabbelier1solydzajs: so we'll have both a Linkable, and a... Pathable? :P12:25
tlarsensolydzajs: I think we can just have it be empty for Users.12:26
solydzajsok12:26
* SRabbelier1 doesn't like that12:27
SRabbelier1it feels hacky12:27
tlarsenI will commit the Linkable class shortly, with documentation, and you all can critique it however you like.12:27
tlarsenAnyway, I would like to get these things out of the way:12:27
MatthewWilkesThe idea of specifying the path as text seems a little odd to me, it's like faking a structured site.  Would it not make sense to have something closer to containment with an object at /foo knowing how to find /foo/bar?12:27
* MatthewWilkes is infected by graph-traversal based frameworks12:28
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: yeah, I was thinking about that too12:28
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: the main problem is12:28
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: Document needs to be able to belong to a lot of things12:28
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: basically to any entity12:28
SRabbelier1oh12:28
SRabbelier1wait12:28
SRabbelier1it's not a problem12:28
SRabbelier1it could just have a reference to something that knows how to construct the prefix12:28
SRabbelier1mhhh...12:29
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: that could work :)12:29
tlarsenSRabbelier1: Can you do this transitively?12:29
SRabbelier1tlarsen: errm, ofcourse, we're already doing it in {Home/Site}Settings12:30
tlarsenSRabbelier1: Document asks Group (which in this example happens to be an Org), and Organization asks Program for its part of the link, and Program asks Sponsor...12:30
SRabbelier1tlarsen: exactly :)12:30
SRabbelier1tlarsen: so all anybody needs to have is a link_id12:31
SRabbelier1and things are properly constructed from there12:31
tlarsenSponsor returns 'google' (its "link ID"), and Program returns 'google/gsoc2009', and Organization returns 'google/gsoc2009/asf'12:31
SRabbelier1tlarsen: right12:31
tlarsenSRabbelier1: I like this idea very much.12:31
SRabbelier1MatthewWilkes: is that what you had in mind?12:31
tlarsenBut, you should still be able to "construct" one as a string, say, for the Developer forms where they want to edit anything.12:31
SRabbelier1tlarsen: yeah, I was thinking about it earlier, but haven't brought it up, thinking it would be yet another (unwanted?) refactor12:31
SRabbelier1tlarsen: why?12:31
SRabbelier1tlarsen: why not just select the type it belongs to12:32
SRabbelier1(say org)12:32
SRabbelier1and then you get a list of orgs12:32
SRabbelier1or12:32
SRabbelier1you just select the type12:32
SRabbelier1and then -type in- the link_id12:32
SRabbelier1and it looks it up itself12:32
MatthewWilkesSRabbelier1: Yep, sounds right12:32
tlarsenSRabbelier1: OK.12:33
SRabbelier1so we do need Linkable12:33
SRabbelier1it just needs some logic around it12:33
SRabbelier1I would really like to remove the old view code12:34
SRabbelier1it had Lennard searching for why things weren't working for 15 minutes12:34
SRabbelier1it would also clean up our tree by a lot12:35
SRabbelier1I already cleaned out templates/12:35
solydzajsSRabbelier1: what are you working on right now ?12:36
SRabbelier1solydzajs: the Invite to Host stuff12:37
solydzajsSRabbelier1: ok, how is this going ?12:37
SRabbelier1solydzajs: see my PoC at srabbelier-melange12:37
SRabbelier1solydzajs: after my recent work on making user generic, it was almost trivial to get a page where you can select whom you want to invite12:37
SRabbelier1I'll add a button to the sponsor page, to invite someone to become a host12:38
SRabbelier1it will redirect to /host/invite/<sponsor name>12:38
solydzajsOk, looks good12:38
SRabbelier1there you select someone (in the same view you know from /user/list)12:38
solydzajswhen do you want to commit that ?12:38
solydzajsI like it :-)12:38
SRabbelier1and you get redirected to /host/invite/<sponsor name>/<user id>12:38
SRabbelier1either that12:39
solydzajsthat's what we talked about during our meeting at Mentor Summit ;-)12:39
SRabbelier1or that should perform the invite12:39
SRabbelier1yes, it is12:39
solydzajsit's all on the blackboard photos :-)12:39
solydzajsI should publish them today12:39
SRabbelier1this is what I've been working to for the past two/three weeks12:39
SRabbelier1solydzajs: you should have 2 weeks ago!!!12:39
SRabbelier1:P12:39
solydzajsSRabbelier1: I know :-)12:39
SRabbelier1solydzajs: it's ok :)12:39
SRabbelier1solydzajs: I had it all in my head anyway12:39
solydzajsSRabbelier1: I will put on melange-dev today for sure man :-)12:40
SRabbelier1solydzajs: sweet :)12:40
SRabbelier1I need help though12:40
tlarsenThis is why we need to branch on Friday AM CST and then have an IRC meeting to go over what is ready to demo.12:40
SRabbelier1I can't get the /user/edit to work12:40
solydzajstlarsen: +1 :-)12:40
solydzajsSRabbelier1: in your generic User version ?12:41
SRabbelier1yes12:41
SRabbelier1see also my RHF to the list12:41
solydzajsyep it's queued up :-)12:41
SRabbelier1ok, good12:41
SRabbelier1then we can show that to Chris in 2 weeks12:41
SRabbelier1anyway12:42
SRabbelier1Lennie has made food (smells good), so I am having dinner for a bit12:42
solydzajsI will have a look at it in a bit12:42
solydzajsI will go home now, eat some dinner too and I should be online around 22PM (in 3h)12:42
solydzajs10PM I mean12:43
solydzajs:-)12:43
solydzajs22:0012:43
solydzajs:-)12:43
solydzajstlarsen: so let's talk in 3h regarding plans for upcoming 1,5 week ok ?12:43
Lenniedinner time :)12:44
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SRabbelier1solydzajs: +112:44
solydzajsSRabbelier1: you will be online in 3h ?12:44
solydzajsLennie|Food: you should join too :-)12:45
SRabbelier1solydzajs: sure, will be there12:45
SRabbelier1solydzajs: lennie says he'll be there12:45
solydzajsSRabbelier1: ok great :-) I guess you too will be seating next to each other :D12:45
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tlarsenFor those of you that are still around, I submitted an soc/models/linkable.py that has my initial thoughts.  Please take some time to comment today.13:05
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SRabbelier1tlarsen: saw it13:09
SRabbelier1tlarsen: will review in a min13:09
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SRabbelier1tlarsen: LGTM13:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: that's exactly what I had in mind13:20
SRabbelier1tlarsen: the SelfReferenceProperty is fancy13:20
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Lennieso14:07
LennieI sent Sverre home ^^14:07
Lennieback in 2h for meeting then :)14:07
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SRabbelierhe did, I'm back now :)15:01
Lennie|Gone^^15:22
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Lennie[+solydzajs] SRabbelier1: ok great :-) I guess you too will be seating next to each other :D15:57
LennieI sent him home :P15:57
SRabbeliersolydzajs: the bastid15:57
Lennie:)15:58
SRabbeliergah15:58
SRabbelierI forgot the administrative password for my first computer (that my dad is now using)15:58
solydzajsLennie: hehe :-)15:59
Lenniesolydzajs: Are we going to have a talk about the next weeks :)?16:11
solydzajsLennie: yep we can start right now16:12
SRabbeliersolydzajs: heh, you know, with the Linkable thing, we can actually have mutable link_names and have them be key names as well16:12
solydzajsLennie: Todd is not around but we can talk in 3 :-)16:12
Lenniel16:12
Lennie*k16:12
Lenniewhiteboard pictures nice :P16:13
SRabbeliersolydzajs: gql("WHERE scope = :1", user_that_wants_to_rename.id)16:13
SRabbelierLennie: I wrote it!16:13
LennieSRabbelier: Nice :P16:14
Lenniehttp://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/3DDisplay/16:17
Lennieftw :)16:17
tpbTitle: ICT Graphics Lab (at gl.ict.usc.edu)16:17
solydzajsok Lennie , SRabbelier IRC meeting in 12 minutes ok ? 10:30, it will take about 15-20 minutes ok ?16:18
SRabbeliersolydzajs: sure16:19
Lenniesure sure :)16:19
Lenniesolydzajs: I think we should also finish up on the link_name nick_name discussion for users16:19
Lenniesolydzajs: As Todd said it's getting long :P16:19
solydzajsLennie: yep I want to reply to this thread today too16:20
LennieSRabbelier: The witheboard practice at the Uni helped :P?16:21
SRabbelierLennie: hehe, yeah :D16:21
LennieSRabbelier: Not that we needed it, stupid teachers :P16:21
solydzajsLennie: this 3D display I saw already it's old :-)16:22
Lenniesolydzajs: :(, I'm oldschool :P16:22
solydzajsLennie: no you're just not tracking those things :-)16:23
Lenniesolydzajs: That would be the most logic conclusion :016:23
LennieSRabbelier: He's a Vulcan I tell you!16:23
SRabbelierLennie: he is, did you see his ears?16:23
LennieSRabbelier: Pics :D?16:23
SRabbelierLennie: vulcan, no doubt about it16:23
Lenniesolydzajs: It's your task to know about this 3d stuff right :P? Since you are in that User Interface Group, if I remember correctly :)16:26
Lenniesolydzajs: Although it's probably more about touch then looks :P16:26
solydzajsLennie: yep :-) it's more about touch, but we usually track all the new technologies in related fields :-)16:29
Lenniesolydzajs: Nice nice :)16:29
solydzajsok guys16:40
SRabbelierok16:41
solydzajsready ?16:41
SRabbeliersure16:41
SRabbelierLennie: good to go?16:41
Lennier :)16:41
solydzajsok SRabbelier , you are working on invitation right ?16:41
solydzajsSRabbelier: it's going to be generic correct ? so we can easily reuse it later as we discussed already during Mentor Summit ?16:42
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ofcourse, you know me ;)16:42
solydzajshow busy you are till Sunday and how many hours you think you will have for Melange work till then ? + how much time do you need to finish invitation ?16:43
SRabbeliersolydzajs: quite busy, there are pc's breaking down around me (many thanks to AVG)16:43
solydzajsand what else you have not yet committed but you started to work on16:43
SRabbeliersolydzajs: that's the last of my queue16:43
solydzajsSRabbelier: please try to put realistic schedule and hours numbers16:43
SRabbeliersolydzajs: heh, maybe I'll have it done end of the week :)16:44
solydzajsSRabbelier: but done you mean ? I would be able to invite somebody as Host and also reuse this functionality in other places ?16:44
solydzajsSRabbelier: will it send invitation email to invited person ?16:44
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yes, that's what I mean by done16:45
SRabbeliersolydzajs: note, end of the week = Sunday16:45
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok16:45
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I'll leave the email thing to lennard ;)16:45
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok16:45
LennieSRabbelier: Fine by me, I havent checked for bugs today so :P16:45
solydzajsSRabbelier: one more question how does Edit Main Site Settings work ?16:46
SRabbeliersolydzajs: atm, you need to create a site settings with partial path 'site' and id 'home'16:46
solydzajsok is this going to change ?16:46
SRabbelierwhen we get the Linkable change in, I reckon it should just be a leaf node with no scope=None16:47
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ofcourse it is16:47
SRabbeliersolydzajs: it's not quite user friendly is it :P16:47
SRabbeliersolydzajs: there needs to be a check if a Site Settings exists, if it doesn't, a create page should be displayed instead16:47
SRabbeliersolydzajs: problem is, atm we can't pass initial values to create16:47
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok I will have a look at it (put it to my todo list), you please focus on Invitations and invitations only, you are easily distracted by other shiny features :-)16:48
SRabbeliersolydzajs: not shiney features, rotting code16:48
Lenniesolydzajs: He's easily distracted during college too ^^16:48
solydzajs:-)16:48
SRabbeliersolydzajs: the user refactoring I actually had to do before I could do invitations16:48
SRabbelierthe site/home settings refactor I admit, could have waited16:49
solydzajsSRabbelier: I understand I'm just kidding :-)16:49
SRabbeliersolydzajs: okies :)16:49
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok so your focus till Sunday is on Invitations and Invitations only ?;-)16:49
SRabbeliersolydzajs: unless something else comes up? :P16:49
solydzajsSRabbelier: well tested, well commented and generic + example of usage for Invite a Host :-)16:49
solydzajsSRabbelier: nothing else comes up for you :-)16:50
SRabbeliersolydzajs: heh, we'll see :)16:50
SRabbeliersolydzajs: the commented part I can try16:50
SRabbeliersolydzajs: the tested part depends on if durin42 (hint hint) will be available to help me out16:50
solydzajsSRabbelier: you can also commit changes more often, you don't have to wait till it's fully working16:50
SRabbeliersolydzajs: so far most of my work has been refactoring, so it wasn't really an option16:51
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I did that with the user code though, I committed part of that before it was done :)16:51
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok but the stuff you have on your deployed melange instance16:51
solydzajsSRabbelier: is something that could be committed already right ?16:52
SRabbeliersolydzajs: sure, I was going to, but didn't get around to it16:52
SRabbeliersolydzajs: why do you want me to though?16:52
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok good16:52
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I use git, I commit locally all the time ;)16:52
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I like being able to change my commits around till I feel confident about them16:53
solydzajsSRabbelier: it's better for contributors (like me, Todd, etc.) to see what are the upcoming changes even when the are not fully functional16:53
SRabbeliersolydzajs: get in the habbit of tracking my public repo? ;)16:53
solydzajsSRabbelier: but it's up to you :-)16:53
solydzajsSRabbelier: do you have RSS feed for it by chance >16:53
SRabbeliersolydzajs: google code needs to hurry up and support mercurial16:53
solydzajs?16:53
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yes16:54
solydzajsSRabbelier: soon soon :-)16:54
SRabbeliersolydzajs: http://repo.or.cz/w/Melange.git16:54
tpbTitle: Public Git Hosting - Melange.git/summary (at repo.or.cz)16:54
solydzajsok this works for me then ;-)16:54
solydzajsno need for often commits :-)16:54
SRabbeliersolydzajs: good :)16:54
solydzajsif you put all your local changes to this public repo :-)16:55
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I always do this16:55
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I do it among other reasons, to synch between my laptop and my desktop16:55
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok great16:56
solydzajsSRabbelier: you are all set :-)16:56
solydzajsLennie: you there ?;-)16:56
Lenniesolydzajs: Ofcourse :D16:56
SRabbeliersolydzajs: you might want to subscribe to http://repo.or.cz/w/Melange.git?a=rss;h=refs/heads/role-invites as well16:56
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SQZ> (at repo.or.cz)16:56
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I use topic branches a lot ;)16:56
durin42SRabbelier: why not github?16:57
SRabbelierdurin42: never bothered16:57
solydzajsSRabbelier: how can I see list of your branches ?16:57
SRabbelierdurin42: if you like, I can set up at github16:57
Lenniesolydzajs: Is it going to be possible to prepopulate the create fields, would be nice for invites :)16:58
durin42SRabbelier: I just prefer github's pretty to the lack thereof on repo.or.cz16:58
durin42SRabbelier: then again, hg.durin42.com is where the hg clone is16:58
durin42so... *shrug*16:58
SRabbelierLennie: ofcourse it will be, I need it for invites :P16:58
SRabbelierdurin42: -nod-16:58
LennieSRabbelier: k16:58
solydzajsLennie: how are you doing with time for Melange ?16:58
SRabbeliersolydzajs: http://repo.or.cz/w/Melange.git?a=heads16:58
tpbTitle: Public Git Hosting - Melange.git/heads (at repo.or.cz)16:58
SRabbeliersolydzajs: it has an rss feed too ;)16:59
Lenniesolydzajs: Bad this week, university + wrath of lich king release :P16:59
Lenniesolydzajs: about 8-10 hours I think :)16:59
SRabbeliersolydzajs: (note that I did not synch from my laptop yet, so you cannot see my latest work atm)16:59
SRabbelierLennie: addict ;)16:59
solydzajsLennie: ok so basically you will work on some bug fixes and send some patches in ?16:59
Lenniesolydzajs: And email for SRabbelier16:59
solydzajsLennie: ok great16:59
Lenniesolydzajs: I dont have anything specific at the moment :)16:59
Lenniesolydzajs: Not that I care, somone has to manually test stuff :P17:00
Lennie*someone17:00
SRabbelieryeah, until durin42 gets those tests on the road :P17:00
durin42someone should write automated tests rather than do it by hand ;)17:00
LennieUsability tests :P17:01
solydzajsdurin42: you said you gonna have some more time for Melange in the upcoming week right ? You are going to work on tests ?17:01
durin42solydzajs: that's the plan17:01
solydzajsdurin42: ok great17:01
SRabbeliersolydzajs: how about you?17:01
SRabbeliersolydzajs: that as_table stuff has been in your queue for at least a week now ;)17:02
solydzajsSRabbelier: yep it needs some code cleaning. I have a queue of few other things. I'm going to create a Program model soon too.17:03
solydzajsSRabbelier: I have couple things I need to fix in your recent commits17:04
SRabbeliersolydzajs: so, where do you put your uncommitted changes?17:04
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yeah, i probably broke former_ids again17:04
solydzajsSRabbelier: test and fix those former_ids (lower, upper case issue is still not totally fixed)17:04
SRabbeliersolydzajs: I just could not make out how to do the merge, I figured it'd be easier if I left it to you ;)17:04
SRabbeliersolydzajs: can you do the former id stuff?17:06
solydzajsSRabbelier: yep will do it.  I will do what is on my todo list (including former ids) and then move to Programs I think17:07
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ok, awesome17:07
SRabbeliersolydzajs: hopefully I can start working on finishing Host :)17:07
SRabbelier(next week or so)17:07
solydzajsSRabbelier: I might add stuff there too :-) gonna see17:08
SRabbeliersolydzajs: it'll be part of the 'invite a host' I reckon17:09
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok good17:09
*** tlarsen|afk is now known as tlarsen17:09
SRabbeliertlarsen: wb17:09
Lennietlarsen: welcome back17:09
SRabbelierLennie: ninja-ed17:10
Lenniesolydzajs: Maybe we can talk about users now?17:10
Lenniesolydzajs: Since Todd is here17:10
SRabbelierLennie: we need to talk about what Todd is going to do first ;)17:10
SRabbelierLennie: unless that involves said users17:10
LennieSRabbelier: Good point :P17:10
solydzajsSRabbelier: Todd is going to finish Terms of Service first17:10
Lenniesolydzajs: Hard coded quiz object right?17:11
solydzajssolydzajs: yep I think that's the plan, but maybe tlarsen can answer that :-)17:11
* tlarsen has been reading the back-scroll...17:13
SRabbelieralways fun17:13
tlarsenLennie: Yes.17:13
tlarsenLennie: We need to get the Linkable stuff done first, since it is going to be a far-reaching change that will break stuff.17:13
Lennietlarsen: Talking about commit 1008?17:14
solydzajstlarsen: I will look at your Linkable commit right now17:14
tlarsenI also want to put some of the sidebar stuff into the Model view classes.  I want to add a method that returns preconstructed menus that are then combined with the static stuff.17:14
Lennietlarsen: Looked nice to me, have to read it a bit more thorough to reach a solid conclusion17:14
tlarsenI think it is silly that we keep updating soc/logic/site/map.py when the menu changes should be localized to the soc/logic/model code that is changing instead.17:15
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, this is what I said during the last meeting17:15
tlarsenSRabbelier: And yet, your recent changes add to site/map.py instead of adding a method.  :)17:16
tlarsenSRabbelier: I was thinking something along the lines of getSidebar().17:16
SRabbeliertlarsen: what do you mean, which recent changes?17:16
SRabbeliertlarsen: I cleaned up SiteSettings so that 'site_main' is just a function call  instead of passing kwargs :)17:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: I'm just saying that lots of recent commits add stuff to the site by putting them in site/map.py, instead of us getting sidebar menu structure and urlpatterns from the new classes.17:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: well, it wasn't there currently17:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: if it was I would have used it17:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: I am talking about the commits that I have been going through that were committed since Friday.17:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: I did not have the time to refactor that too17:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, I realize.  We talked about it, but I haven't seen any attempts to do it the way we talked about.17:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: I don't think it is a refactor, per se.17:18
SRabbeliertlarsen: it'd be cleaner if it was though17:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: Just add a method that returns the sidebar structure for that set of views, and patch that into site/sidebar.py.17:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: I think we can do this incrementally.17:18
SRabbeliertlarsen: please be my guest and lead the way ;)17:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: not some huge refactor that touches lots of code.17:19
SRabbeliertlarsen: no, not lots of code, just map.py and the views/models/*.py17:19
tlarsenSRabbelier: Sigh.  You know more about the new code than I do.  You wrote it.  But, sure, I'll take a stab at it.17:19
solydzajstlarsen: getMenuItem maybe instead of getSidebar ?17:19
SRabbeliertlarsen: you need to get to know the new code too though :)17:19
SRabbeliertlarsen:  do you want working "Invite a Host", or to have this sitemap stuff done first...17:20
SRabbelierI cannot do both first :17:20
SRabbelier:P17:20
tlarsensolydzajs: Yes, getMenuItem().17:20
tlarsensolydzajs: Then, we just pull stuff out of site/sidebar.py and replace it with calls to getMenuItem() from the correct view singletons, right?17:20
solydzajstlarsen: yes I think that would be nice.17:21
tlarsenSRabbelier: I am not asking you to change what you are doing.  Just don't add anything more to site/map.py.17:21
tlarsenSRabbelier: let's figure out how to represent what is in site/map.py in the new code, and only make things show up in urlpatterns and the sidebar menu *that* way.  (whatever "that" way is...)17:21
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SRabbeliertlarsen: mhhh, I was thiking of something like this17:22
tlarsenSRabbelier: Once I have an example that works, I can go and replicate that pattern for all of the existing ones.17:22
* SRabbelier gets a whiteboard...17:22
SRabbelierinstead of having to change site/sidebar.py all the time17:23
SRabbelierwouldn't it be better to create a singleton somewhere, aptly named 'sitemap', with a few public functions similar to what we use now in map.py17:23
SRabbelierso that you can do17:24
SRabbeliersitemap.addSite(self)17:24
tlarsenYes, the other code should "register" its place in the sidebar, breadcrumb, and urlpatterns structure.17:24
tlarsenI think that would be addPage().17:24
SRabbelierright17:24
tlarsenOr addView() or something.17:24
SRabbelierso instead of editing http://code.google.com/p/soc/source/browse/trunk/app/soc/logic/site/sidebar.py?r=100217:24
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SQw> (at code.google.com)17:24
SRabbelierwe just put the sitemap.addPage call in the view model17:25
tlarsenYes, that is what should happen.17:25
tlarsenKeep in mind that some of these need to be callables that return a menu structure.17:25
SRabbeliertlarsen: why do push17:25
tlarsenThey will be dynamic and need to produce MenuItem structures based on the contents of the Datastore, when they are called at sidebar menu display time.17:26
SRabbeliertlarsen: aah, like that17:26
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, this I agree on17:26
SRabbeliertlarsen: so we add a property, cachable17:26
tlarsenSo, I think views should be able to:17:26
SRabbeliersitemap.addSite(self, cachable=True)17:26
SRabbelierif cachable, the sitemap can construct that part of the map on lazy init17:26
tlarsen1) register a top-level "menu name" and a callable that produces a MenuItem (that object also contains the sub-menus if any).17:26
SRabbelierif it's not cachable, it just keeps that part of the menu structure in memory indefinitely, and asks it for it's contents every time the side menu is requested17:27
tlarsenI still don't think it is a "Site" that is added...17:27
SRabbeliermeh, sorry, addpage17:27
tlarsenBut, yes, the cacheability is good.17:27
SRabbelierplease, I really don't care about names17:27
tlarsenOK, if the first argument is 'self', what sort of interface does that 'self' provide?  One that looks like a MenuItem?17:28
tlarsenThat would be my suggestion...17:28
SRabbeliertlarsen: nono, why?17:28
SRabbeliertlarsen: just give it a self.views.models.foo module17:28
tlarsenThen what are you registering?17:29
tlarsenOK, then that module needs to be able to produce sidebar menus and urlpatterns?17:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes17:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: but!17:29
tlarsenLet's remember what the current site/map.py provides:17:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: if possible, it should leave that to a function in base.py or such17:29
tlarsen1) urlpatterns that bind URLs to views17:29
tlarsen2) sidebar menu structure.17:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: only if there need be a dynamic entry we should write code, otherwise it should just be some fields defined17:30
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, we can re-use part of that code17:30
tlarsenIf we are going to eliminate site/map.py, then we need something that produces the urlpatterns and something that produces the sidebar menu (and that sidebar structure would also be used for breadcrumbs, but that is internal to each view).17:30
SRabbeliertlarsen: we can generate the breadcrumb in the same way we generate the sidebar menu17:31
SRabbeliertlarsen: the urlpatterns should be defined in the soc.views.models.* module17:31
SRabbeliertlarsen: something simple like a map should do17:31
tlarsenI agree that the urlpatterns should be defined there, but what will collect them all and present them to Django?17:32
SRabbeliertlarsen: correct them?17:32
* SRabbelier is lost now17:32
SRabbelier(do they get grades? :D)17:32
tlarsen"collect"17:33
SRabbelier0.o17:33
SRabbelierI'm blind17:33
SRabbeliersorry17:33
tlarsenIn soc/logic/site/map.py, getDjangoUrlPatterns() returns all of the Url objects to Django.17:33
SRabbelierit's 23:30 here!17:33
SRabbelieryup17:33
SRabbelierhave urls.py just call sitemap.getDjangoUrlPatterns17:33
tlarsenThese need to be returned all at once, when the app first starts up.17:33
SRabbeliercan we guarantee sitemap is done initializing by then?17:34
tlarsenSo, the registry should be placed in site/map.py, but what initializes it?17:34
SRabbelieriow, will all singletons be instantiated by then?17:34
tlarsenKeep in mind that your singletons do not exist until the module is imported.17:34
tlarsenSRabbelier: that is exactly what I am getting at.17:34
SRabbeliertlarsen: bummer17:34
SRabbeliertlarsen: import them all with reflection? :D17:35
SRabbelierwe do have an __import__ statement at our disposal :P17:35
SRabbeliers/statement/method/17:35
ibotSRabbelier meant: we do have an __import__ method at our disposal :P17:35
tlarsenWhy not just require that the import be added to site/map.py each time there is a new view module?17:36
solydzajsImporting them all at startup is not stupid tho, will speed it up :-)17:36
SRabbeliereep :(17:36
SRabbeliertlarsen: I thought we wanted to avoid that17:36
SRabbelierfor files in "soc/views/models":17:36
SRabbelier  __import__ file # pseudo code17:36
SRabbelierwouldn't that work?17:36
SRabbelierI mean, it's not even that ugly17:36
tlarsenSRabbelier: I don't mind 10 imports replacing 50 manually declared Page objects.17:36
tlarsenSRabbelier: It is still a *big* win.17:36
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, this is true17:36
solydzajstrue17:36
Lennie+117:36
SRabbeliertlarsen: even better if we can do it without the imports though :)17:36
SRabbeliertlarsen: later worry17:37
SRabbeliertlarsen: we can do it with manual imports in urls.py like we used to17:37
tlarsenYes, incremental clean-ups, rather than the magical silver bullet.17:37
SRabbelier:)17:37
SRabbelierok17:37
SRabbelierso in urls.py we put all the imports17:37
SRabbelierwhen those are done, we will know sitemap is fully initialized17:37
tlarsenI would rather the "Django" file urls.py not change.17:37
SRabbelieroh, ok, sure17:37
SRabbelierstuff it in map.py17:37
SRabbelierI don't care much17:38
SRabbelieranwyay17:38
tlarsenJust put the imports in site/map.py, and importing that in urls.py will do the trick.17:38
SRabbeliersitemap wil lbe initialized17:38
SRabbelierso we can ask for the django urls17:38
tlarsenSRabbelier: The point is to get the urlpatterns in the individual view modules close to where they are used.17:38
SRabbelierwhich can be constructed properly, using the paramter supplied earlier17:38
SRabbeliersitemap.addPage(self, cachable=foo, add_sitebar=True)17:39
SRabbelieradd some sanity checks if you want in addPage17:39
tlarsenThat way, if code needs to generate patterns (or generate sidebar structure) it can.17:39
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, that's what I want too17:39
SRabbeliertlarsen: teh santiy check should check if there's no regexp in the url17:40
SRabbelierbut I want it to be explicit that you want to show up in the sidebar17:40
SRabbelieroh, wait17:40
* MatthewWilkes wishes zope.component worked in GAE, perfect for this usecase17:40
SRabbelierMatthewWilkes: +117:41
SRabbelierit shouldn't be an arg to addPag17:41
SRabbeliersince you can export multiple views17:41
tlarsenSRabbelier: I'd really rather not supply a lot of parameters to the sitemap registry.17:41
SRabbelierso it should be a field in the value side of the  dictionary17:41
SRabbeliertlarsen: yeah, we can drop cachable too and put it in the dict17:41
tlarsenSRabbelier: it is best if the 'self' passed to the registry just provides some methods that answer those questions.17:41
SRabbeliertlarsen: cachable should be per-view too17:41
SRabbeliertlarsen: sure17:42
tlarsenSRabbelier: e.g. isInSidebar() and isCachable().17:42
SRabbeliertlarsen: mhhhh, nono, the self can export multiple views17:42
tlarsenThen that is not what I had in mind, I suppose.17:42
SRabbelierfor example17:42
tlarsenI have been thinking in terms of Page objects, which are per-view.17:42
SRabbelieryes, but soc.views.models.* are not Page objects anyway, so those Page objects should just be generated from the data contained in the soc.views.models* object17:43
tlarsenSRabbelier: I think we have two separate use cases here, that are getting mixed up because I combined urlpatterns info *and* sidebar structure in my Page objects.17:44
tlarsenSRabbelier: Let's get rid of the concept of the Page object for the sake of discussion for a bit.17:45
tlarsenSRabbelier: We really have two different problems to solve:17:45
SRabbelierlet's go for a Nodei nstead17:45
SRabbeliersince we're creating a tree, yes?17:45
SRabbeliera Node can have children17:45
tlarsen1) have an soc.views.models.* class return the urlpatterns that it needs registered17:45
tlarsen2) have an soc.views.models.* class provide a method that will produce, on demand, the MenuItem (so that some sidebar menus can be dynamic)17:46
tlarsenCaching for #2 should be done *inside* the soc.views.models.* class.17:46
SRabbeliertlarsen: ah, why not17:46
tlarsenIf it doesn't need to be dynamic, it lazy-generates a MenuItem object once, caches it, and returns that every time.17:46
tlarsenIf it needs dynamic sidebar contents, it creates it each time getMenuItem() is called.17:47
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok17:47
SRabbeliertlarsen: and it can just add any sub-items to the MenuItem as it desires?17:47
tlarsenSRabbelier: I think the soc.views.models.* class is in the best position to know what is cachable and what is not.17:47
SRabbeliertlarsen: right, ofcourse :)17:47
tlarsenSRabbelier: it can even cache *some* sub-menus and not others, for example.17:47
SRabbeliertlarsen: right17:48
tlarsenSRabbelier: I guess I'd like to see this partially implemented before we add any more views.17:48
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, so this is your priority?17:48
tlarsenOnce there is one agreed on interface, anyone can refactor existing views as needed.17:48
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tlarsenSRabbelier: I'd just like to see one example, before I go off and start refactoring everything.17:49
tlarsenSRabbelier: That way, we are all sure that we are on the same page.17:49
tlarsen(pun intended)17:49
SRabbelierheh17:49
SRabbeliertlarsen: go ahead, put it on codereviews, I'll have a look at it and let you know if that's what I have in mind17:49
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Lenniethat's it :)?17:50
SRabbelierLennie: I'm good, time for bed, yes?17:51
LennieSRabbelier: Yeah almost ^^17:51
solydzajs:-)17:51
tlarsenSRabbelier: OK, I'm going to add two interfaces, one that returns a list of Django Url objects, and one that returns a MenuItem.17:51
SRabbeliertlarsen: sounds good to me17:51
SRabbeliertlarsen: I agree that they should be seperate17:51
tlarsenI will come up with something tonight or tomorrow morning (depending on how my evening goes...).17:51
tlarsenI will likely just commit it if it works.17:52
SRabbeliertlarsen: the current solution of adding the Django Urls to the sitemap (things like 'user/edit/<link name pattern>' being under the site_home thing) feels icky17:52
tlarsen(I will blend the old and new ways, not breaking anything.)17:52
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok17:52
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, agreed.  It was a hack to keep the stuff in urls.py and the sidebar menu structure together.17:52
SRabbeliertlarsen: right, let's correct that :)17:53
tlarsenSRabbelier: It was an intermediate point to moving each view's information about that closer to the view.17:53
solydzajsok guys, can somebody please write a short summary of your discussion and upcoming changes and post it on melange-dev ?17:53
Lenniethat would be nice17:53
SRabbelierwe need a wiki :P17:53
solydzajsSRabbelier: we are slowly fixing everything :-)17:53
tlarsensolydzajs: The IRC log isn't good enough?  :)17:53
solydzajsSRabbelier: we have a wiki ;-)17:53
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yes, we are17:53
tlarsenSRabbelier: http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki17:54
tpbTitle: soc - Google Code (at code.google.com)17:54
SRabbeliersolydzajs: this is true, but it cerates an svn commit fore ach change :P17:54
tlarsenSRabbelier: yes, that is annoying.17:54
solydzajstlarsen: well it's ok,17:54
tlarsenLet's use Sites.17:54
SRabbelieranyway17:54
tlarsenJust a sec.17:54
solydzajstlarsen: :-)17:54
SRabbelierI'm off to bed now17:54
tlarsenhttp://sites.google.com/a/googleopensourceprograms.com17:54
SRabbelierI'll write up something tomorrow17:54
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SRQ> (at sites.google.com)17:54
solydzajstlarsen: we have sites on googleopensourceprograms.com right ?17:54
LennieSRabbelier nn17:54
solydzajstlarsen: yep exacly +117:54
SRabbeliertlarsen: fancy that17:54
tlarsensolydzajs: Every committer has access to that.17:54
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tlarsenSRabbelier: I hope you remember your password.  :)17:55
solydzajstlarsen: yep I know, I'm using Google Apps for your domain on other domains too17:55
Lennietlarsen: n1 :P17:55
SRabbeliertlarsen: sure, yay Google Chrome17:55
Lennieif you'd read about him forgetting admin pw that is :)17:55
tlarsenFeel free to check this stuff as "public" by the way.17:55
tlarsenLennie: That is exactly what I was referring to.  :)17:56
SRabbelierhehe17:56
SRabbelierthat was 5 years ago :P17:56
SRabbelieractually17:56
SRabbelierI think the manufacturer shipped it with that pwd17:56
SRabbelierthat's what I read in microsoft's KB17:56
SRabbelieranyway, let's schedule a meeting this sunday, yes?17:56
SRabbelierto discuss what all we got done17:56
SRabbelierbtw, the next conference call needs to move half an hour forward17:57
solydzajsyes let's schedule for sunday17:57
SRabbelierI can't make it home in half an hour, and I can't keep bothering Lennard ;)17:57
LennieI'm not gonna make dinner for sverre everyday :p17:57
solydzajsI will schedule it and invite you all17:57
solydzajssunday around 7-8PM17:57
SRabbelierLennie: (dinner was really good ;))17:57
SRabbeliersolydzajs: +117:57
Lenniesolydzajs, can you send me a calendar invite too?17:57
solydzajsLennie: yep of course I will send to all17:58
SRabbeliertlarsen: can you ping Chris about moving the biweekly call forward 30-60 minutes?17:58
Lennienot sure I was part of all ^^17:58
tlarsenSRabbelier: no meetings for me on Sundays, sorry.17:58
solydzajstlarsen: SRabbelier is working on generic Invitations till Sunday17:58
tlarsenSRabbelier: earlier on Monday?17:58
solydzajstlarsen: ok let's make it on Monday17:58
tlarsenSRabbelier: it is already 9:00 AM for him.17:58
SRabbeliertlarsen: then wouldn't 9:30 or 10:00 be better for him? ;)17:58
solydzajstlarsen: Monday 1PM your time ?17:59
tlarsenSRabbelier: Oh, you want to move it *later*.17:59
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, that's what I'm saying, forward?17:59
tlarsen10:00 AM his time is noon my time.17:59
tlarsenCST is PDT+217:59
tlarsenErr, PST+217:59
* SRabbelier wonders by what definition forward means earlier :P17:59
* Lennie ponders about going forward faster then light17:59
tlarsenSRabbelier: "forward" == "advance"17:59
SRabbeliertlarsen: ah, yes, in that context I see it meaning earlier17:59
tlarsenSRabbelier: If you want to "move a meeting forward" you want to "advance" it.18:00
SRabbeliercontext['that'] = earlier? :P18:00
solydzajsok guys I gonna schedule a meeting for Monday at 8PM UTC +118:00
* SRabbelier shakes head at crazy americans18:00
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yes, that would be good18:00
SRabbeliertlarsen: will you ask if Chris is ok with doing the meeting an (half) hour later?18:00
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, I will ask him.  That would be at 9:30 AM PST, right?  Anyone have a world time link?18:01
SRabbeliertlarsen: sure, will fetch one18:02
solydzajstlarsen: 9:30 AM MTV time, 12:30 Alabama time, 6:30PM NL/PL time18:02
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ok18:02
SRabbelier10AM MTV time would be perfect though18:02
SRabbeliercos that way I can get something to eat before the call :P18:02
LennieSRabbelier: Coders dont need food18:02
SRabbelierbut if it's not an option 9:30AM MTV time is an option18:02
SRabbelierLennie: you know this to be a lie :P18:02
solydzajstlarsen: our internal Monday meeting will be at 11AM MTV time, 1PM Alabama, 8PM NL/PL time18:03
LennieSRabbelier: Sverre needs food :)18:03
SRabbelierLennie: does this mean I'm not a coder? :(18:03
SRabbeliersolydzajs: +118:03
Lenniesolydzajs: ++18:03
tlarsenAt this time?18:03
tlarsenhttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2008&month=11&day=24&hour=17&min=30&sec=0&p1=37&p2=64&p3=22418:03
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SRY> (at www.timeanddate.com)18:03
SRabbeliertlarsen: but preferring http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2008&month=11&day=24&hour=18&min=00&sec=0&p1=37&p2=64&p3=22418:03
tpb<http://ln-s.net/2SR_> (at www.timeanddate.com)18:04
SRabbelier(considering that I need f00d!)18:04
solydzajsboth work for me18:04
SRabbelieroh18:05
SRabbelierbtw18:05
SRabbelierwe has a bug18:05
SRabbelierin validating e-mail18:05
SRabbelierannoying google app engine cuts off the @gmail.com part18:05
solydzajsSRabbelier: yep I know because we don't add emails to former_ids but User objects18:06
solydzajsSRabbelier: it's not a bug18:06
SRabbelierso when I edit someone's user page (if they have a @gmail.com account), it'll show just the prefix18:06
solydzajsSRabbelier: it's the way we display them18:06
SRabbelierit makes it impossible to do /user/edit/tlarsen, and just hit 'save'18:06
SRabbelier(one would expect that to do nothing, since you didn't change anything18:06
SRabbelierinstead it will give an error that 'tlarsen' is not a valid e-mail address)18:06
solydzajsSRabbelier: oh weird18:07
SRabbeliersolydzajs: possibly my fault with the user refactoring18:07
SRabbelierLennie: interested in looking at that perhaps?18:07
solydzajsSRabbelier: I will have a look at it18:07
solydzajsSRabbelier: but tomorrow18:07
LennieSRabbelier: Guess not :)18:07
SRabbeliersolydzajs: you have a huge queue though18:07
SRabbeliersolydzajs: why not let Lennie do it ;)18:07
solydzajssure Lennie do it :-)18:08
solydzajsI'm fine with that18:08
Lenniegrmbl ^^18:08
Lenniesure18:08
LennieI'll add it to my list :)18:08
solydzajsok great18:08
LennieDrop a bugreport in my email SRabbelier ^^18:08
SRabbelierLennie: pfff, I'll poke you tomorrow18:09
LennieSRabbelier: So I know how to reproduce :D18:09
SRabbelierLennie: a lot easier to just show you :P18:09
Lennie^^18:09
LennieLazy me :)18:09
SRabbelierok18:09
SRabbelierbed calls18:09
SRabbelierg'night people18:09
solydzajsgood night18:09
SRabbeliercheers!18:09
SRabbeliersolydzajs: thank you for hosting this meeting18:09
solydzajstlarsen: is 1PM meeting on Monday ok with you ?18:09
solydzajsSRabbelier: always man :-) heh18:10
tlarsensolydzajs: This coming Monday?  Sure.18:10
SRabbeliersolydzajs: cheers :)18:10
Lennietlarsen: Hopefully we can talk about that long user thread then :)18:10
solydzajstlarsen: yep, our internal IRC meeting to see the progress since today.18:10
tlarsenI don't have a problem with meetings during CST working hours, unless I already have a Google meeting, and those are usually on Friday.18:10
solydzajstlarsen: ok good, then I will invite you all and schedule it for Monday18:10
tlarsenChris said OK to moving the meeting to 18:00 UTC.18:10
solydzajstlarsen: ok great.18:11
Lenniesolydzajs: Cool, I'll see the invite pop-up in my calendar then :D18:11
LennieiGoogle homepage, best ever!18:11
tlarsenLennie: To what email address should the invite be sent?18:11
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solydzajsLennie: you can always add reminders :-) I have SMS and Email reminders for our biweekly meetings18:11
Lennietlarsen: [email protected]18:12
tlarsenWhat is your full name?18:12
LennieLennard de Rijk18:12
LennieLeonardus Johannes Vincentcius de Rijk, if you'd really want the full name :P18:12
solydzajswow18:12
solydzajs:-)18:12
solydzajscrazy NLs :-)18:13
LennieCrazy Roman Catholics :P18:13
Lenniebut lets just keep it on Lennard shall we :D18:13
solydzajstrue I'm catholic too so my first name is Pawel, second is Lukasz, third is Mateusz :-)18:13
solydzajsPawel Lukasz Mateusz Solyga18:13
solydzajs:D18:13
solydzajsheh18:13
Lennie:)18:13
solydzajsbut Mateusz is only used at church sometimes18:14
solydzajsLukasz is needed sometimes for paperwork18:14
LennieLukasz is a cool name, only we would leave out the z :)18:14
solydzajsPawel is used everywhere :-)18:14
Lennie:)18:15
Lenniethink thats it for tonight then18:16
Lennieunless you guys have something to add :D18:16
Lennieor ask18:17
solydzajsthat's it18:17
solydzajshave a good night18:17
Lenniek cool18:17
Lennienn18:17
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solydzajstlarsen: g'night18:34
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