Monday, 2008-10-13

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lhsolydzajs: no worries.02:58
lhsince i timed out half way through02:58
lh_Allen_ or solydzajs - can you publish the meeting logs as a text file? I'll send them to the list02:59
solydzajslh: ok one sec :-)03:00
lhsolydzajs: thank you03:00
tpbTitle: IRC logs (at
mithrojust for nextime03:01
lhmithro: you rock, thank you03:02
_Allen_lh: done with the logs03:03
_Allen_lh: how to send it to you/03:03
mithrojust finished fixing search03:04
solydzajs_Allen_: I'm sending right now :-)03:04
lh_Allen_: just email as text file to melange-soc-dev03:04
tpb<> (at
lhok all this works too03:04
_Allen_solydzajs: ok03:04
_Allen_lh: ok03:04
lh_Allen_: thank you very much03:05
mithromight as well get atleast one thing done this weekend03:05
_Allen_lh: my pleasure :)03:05
lhmithro: woot!03:06
_Allen_solydzajs: thanks03:07
lhi still think we should use ibot03:10
lhbut these logs are awesome for now03:10
lhmithro: tyvm03:10
lhthank you very much03:10
mithromy acronym foo is week, stupid dyslexia03:11
lhno worries, i will always gladly expand for you03:12
mithrowell, talk to you tommorrow03:12
lhmithro: sleep well03:12
* lh will brb03:12
_Allen_solydzajs: please let me know once you made me the committer03:13
solydzajs_Allen_: Todd will do that since I don't have rights :-)03:14
solydzajs_Allen_: This will happen today03:14
_Allen_solydzajs: ah.. thanks03:14
* SRabbelier|Uni is back for a sec03:16
lhSRabbelier|Uni: we are going to start plotting demo on list03:16
lhtodd is checking mail right now03:16
SRabbelier|Uniok, cool03:17
* SRabbelier|Uni is brb again03:21
SRabbelier|Unilh: +1 on the logs03:30
lhSRabbelier|Uni: exactly. this needs to live forever.03:31
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: opps, I can not access the mailing list...03:34
SRabbelier|Uni_Allen_: how come?03:35
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: 403 forbidden03:36
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: no detail info..03:36
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_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: hey05:04
SRabbelier|Uni_Allen_: hey again05:07
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: what can I help about your refactor?05:10
SRabbelier|Uni_Allen_: I'm waiting for Todd and Pawel's comments first05:10
SRabbelier|Unigoing to try to actually get it working now :)05:11
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: ok05:11
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: if you have any idears or someting that need I do, tell whenever when I am hung on05:14
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: tell --> tell me05:14
SRabbelier|Uni_Allen_: s/hung // :P05:16
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: while I am on this channel, :)05:16
SRabbelier|Unibetter :)05:17
_Allen_SRabbelier|Uni: do we have another discussion tommorrow?09:48
durin42SRabbelier|Uni: around now10:26
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SRabbelier|Unidurin42: heya10:48
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SRabbelierdurin42: on the away nick, that was cos I wanted to be able to sign in from Uni with my SRabbelier nick ;)10:49
SRabbelierdurin42: but not having to sign out here10:49
SRabbelierdurin42: you gonna review my awesome refactorings? :D10:50
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lhheard from pawel, he's going to be late10:57
lhoh yes and morning/evening all10:57
SRabbelierlh: oh, how come?10:57
SRabbeliermorning :)10:57
SRabbelierslept well?10:57
lhSRabbelier: unknown10:57
lhSRabbelier: yes!10:57
SRabbelierlol, ok10:58
durin42goooooooood morning everyone!10:58
* durin42 wasn't awake but is now thanks to tea10:58
SRabbelierdurin42: tea? dragon power tea or what? :P10:58
lhdurin42: good morning10:58
tlarsenAfter this meeting, I will probably be away the rest of the day.  Sorry.10:59
lhtlarsen: no worries10:59
tlarsenI connected up the 12v aux battery backwards in my Prius and blew the 100A fuse.10:59
lhoh my. is the car ok?10:59
tlarsenI am really praying I did not damage the DC/DC inverter.10:59
durin42SRabbelier: just generic green tea10:59
SRabbelierdurin42: whatever floats your boat :)10:59
tlarsenlh: that is a 4-figure repair, and I'd have to have the car towed in, since it is disabled at my house.11:00
lhtlarsen: that's expensive. :(11:00
durin42tlarsen: one hopes the fuse saved it11:00
* lh looks for demo stuff on list11:00
tlarsendurin42: The only other case of this I could find online only lost the fuse.11:00
tlarsendurin42: It is a complete pain-in-the-ass "fuse".  It is wired in.  It took me three hours last night to detach it.11:00
* tlarsen *can* work on cars (and has since a teenager) but *hates* to be *required* to do it.11:01
lhtlarsen: that's awesome11:01
lhso we're here to talk about what we want to demo at the mentor summit11:02
lhpawel sent a starting set of ideas to melange-soc-dev11:02
tlarsenSo, how did you all like getting occasional emails from me from the ridgetops of the Appalachian Mountains when my G1 phone would work?11:02
durin42tlarsen: I feel you, I work on cars too11:02
lhtlarsen: it was awesome. i love mine.11:02
SRabbeliertlarsen: you have a G1 phone?11:03
SRabbelierlh: no fair!11:03
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes.11:03
tpb<> (at
lheveryone want to take a look?11:03
SRabbelierlh: just read it11:03
lhSRabbelier: i have two. one for demos and one for me. no one touches my andy11:03
lhSRabbelier: cool11:03
lheveryone else take a few mins to read in case they have not11:03
SRabbelierlh: hehe, sweet :)11:04
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lhall hail TimRiker11:04
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ibotsaved user and chan files11:04
SRabbelierTimRiker: I hear you're our log guy? :D11:05
TimRikerlh: bot addeded. sorry I didn't get online much yesterday. :)11:05
lhTimRiker: you rock, dude.11:05
* lh hands TimRikera laurel wreath11:05
TimRikerlh: got a couple shirts in the mail though, thx! :)11:05
lha laurel wreath even11:05
* lh loves the swag love11:05
TimRiker~wreath lh11:05
lhTimRiker: many many thanks11:05
* ibot hands lh a laurel wreath and nods in gratitude.11:05
lhi love ibot11:05
ibotAll conversations are logged to, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.11:06
lhokay folks, we now have perma logging thanks to mr. riker11:06
lhfolks one sec someone at my desk11:06
_Allen_TimRiker: wreath11:06
lhplease talk about pawel's mail11:06
SRabbelierI'm not sure what the 'apple' is doing in there :P11:07
tlarsenIt is fabulous.  It touched a deep part of me.  :)11:07
TimRikerif you're not familiar with ibot... /msg ibot help   is a good place to start.11:07
SRabbelierbut it looks good :)11:08
TimRikerwhat's with tpb? that bot is messaging me with error lines.11:09
SRabbelierTimRiker: what's it saying?11:09
_Allen_10 minutes left before the electric power off11:09
TimRiker<tpb> Error: "where" is not a valid command.11:10
SRabbelier_Allen_: oh?11:10
_Allen_SRabbelier: it's 23:10 in my country now11:10
SRabbelier_Allen_: the power goes of at 23:20?11:10
_Allen_SRabbelier: exactly at 23:3011:10
SRabbelier_Allen_: the power jsut goes off?11:11
_Allen_SRabbelier: power cut11:11
SRabbelier_Allen_: how come?11:11
_Allen_SRabbelier: it is the rule of my school11:12
SRabbelier_Allen_: lol... ok :P11:12
_Allen_SRabbelier: so this is another discussion?11:12
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SRabbelier_Allen_: uhm, we're gonna talk about the demo now11:13
_Allen_SRabbelier: sorry that I can not participate11:13
tlarsenI think we need to get the Question/Answer/Questionnaire/Response stuff done before the summit.11:13
SRabbeliertlarsen: is there a lot of specific logic for those?11:13
tlarsenlh: the Terms of Service, Organization applications, etc. are implemented in terms of this.11:13
tlarsenNo, here is the plan:11:14
tlarsenIn the (Site/Sponsor/Organization) Settings, you can:11:14
tlarsen1)  pick a Questionnaire that has already been created.11:14
tlarsen2) within that Questionnaire, pick the question that represents the "I agree" question11:15
SRabbeliertlarsen: similar to how in SiteSetting a Document is selected?11:15
lhTimRiker: thank you for the help hint11:15
tlarsen3) within that Question, select the "I agree" affirmative answer11:15
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes.11:15
lh_Allen_: will you be online later?11:15
tlarsenThe Settings entity would store three things:11:16
tlarsen1) ReferenceProperty to the selected Questionnaire11:16
_Allen_lh: 9 hours later11:16
tlarsen2) StringProperty of the "I agree" Question short_name, or maybe even a ReferenceProperty to the Question entity11:16
_Allen_lh: sorry that I need off now11:16
SRabbelier_Allen_: will see you later then11:17
lh_Allen_: we have another meeting in 8 hrs - i can push it back if you want to participate11:17
tlarsen3) something to record what the "I agree" answer value needs to be11:17
lh_Allen_: no problem11:17
* lh is happy to do the demo at the summit btw11:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: I am going to commit drafts of the Question, Answer, Questionnaire, and Response Models today.11:17
_Allen_lh: that's good11:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: I was just reading that mail :)11:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: I had them very fleshed out at one point, but I lost the code somehow, so I will have to re-write it.11:18
lh_Allen_: will do.11:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: I will then create issues in the issue tracker describing these pieces.11:18
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, sounds good; you're meaning just the model and logic code, no view code yet?11:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: actually, I only had the Models.11:18
_Allen_lh: also feel free to hold that before I come back, I can see the log11:18
tlarsenSRabbelier: I will commit something today.11:18
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, that's np :)11:19
_Allen_lh: hold --> start11:19
tlarsenSRabbelier: the required logic was going to be described in a series of issues.11:19
tlarsenSRabbelier: A UI is needed as well, to:11:19
lh_Allen_: okay, but that's an hour before you are back, we will wait for you11:19
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, makes sense; would be good for _Allen_ to work on11:19
tlarsen1) create Questions11:19
tlarsen2) create Questionnaires that combine a series of Questions11:19
_Allen_lh: ok, :)11:20
_Allen_see u guys11:20
tlarsen3) let users create Responses containing specific Answers to the Questions in a given Questionnaire11:20
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SRabbeliertlarsen: how much different from soc.logic.models.questionaires.getOrInsertFromFields... would the create part be?11:20
SRabbeliertlarsen: is there a lot of additional stuff needeD?11:20
tlarsenSRabbelier: You'll have to wait and see the Model :)11:20
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, will wait for that :)11:20
tlarsenSRabbelier: A lot of the fields are *not* required, since the Question Model supports many types of questions.11:21
tlarsenSRabbelier: Now that we have inheritance via PolyModel, I'm thinking about having a small hierarchy.11:21
tlarsenSRabbelier: That wasn't available to me before, and the Question Model got unnecessarily complex.11:21
SRabbeliertlarsen: the Questions will be stored in teh Questionairy in a ListProperty?11:21
lhTimRiker: when will the melange logs show up at
tlarsenSRabbelier: No, in a many-to-many relation between Question and Questionnaire.11:22
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, so a question can appear in multiple questionaires?11:22
tlarsenQuestions can be reused in other Questionnaires.11:22
* SRabbelier nods11:23
SRabbelierok, makes sense11:23
SRabbelierso we'll have a 'list questions' view etc.?11:23
lhplease make sure to build this so that hosts can easily add/remove questions for questionairres11:24
lhi dont want to bug devs for this every time11:24
SRabbelierlh: that's easy to do with a many-to-many relation :)11:24
tlarsenlh: It is completely run-time dynamic.11:24
tlarsenlh: That is why it is so complicated to describe.11:24
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tlarsenlh: We couldn't possibly have something like Melange work with code changes being required to change or create Questionnaires.11:25
tlarsenlh: They will be a sort of Document (Work, actually) that can be created on-the-fly.11:25
lhtlarsen: that's very very good11:25
tlarsenUgh, I have 45 emails related to Melange that I still haven't answered, despite reading my emails on the trail.  :(11:26
SRabbeliertlarsen: I'm looking forward  to your reviews :)11:26
SRabbelierI managed to get all but the 'edit' part working generic11:26
SRabbelier(for Sponsors)11:26
SRabbelierand I haven't got edit workign cos I didnt' have time to start on that yet :P11:27
lhconversation has stopped11:33
lhlets keep it going here folks11:33
* SRabbelier is not sure what to discuss atm :)11:33
durin42sorry, I vanished because of random bugs I wrote two weeks ago.11:33
durin42Did I miss anything I should have paid attention to?11:34
lhdurin42: no worries. any time to look at the test suite?11:34
lhdurin42: no you were fine.11:34
durin42lh: on the agenda for tonight11:34
lhSRabbelier: how much work is left on the sponsors area11:34
lhdurin42: awesome. :)11:34
lhthank you!11:34
SRabbelierlh: for the refactored view stuff?11:34
lhSRabbelier: yes11:34
durin42lh: with the MBP in the shop, I can't do hgsubversion stuff as well11:34
SRabbelierlh: I think about an hour of work at most11:34
lhdurin42: MBP?11:34
* tlarsen prefers email threads for stuff like this, rather than IRC11:34
lhSRabbelier: ok cool11:35
durin42lh: MacBook Pro, aka 'a steev'11:35
SRabbelierlh: the concept is up for review though11:35
lhtlarsen: i know, but some people prefer this way. we will do both to make sure we have effective logs and discussions11:35
lhdurin42: understood11:35
lhSRabbelier: what do you mean by concept up for review?11:35
SRabbelierlh: the 1602 codereview11:35
tlarsenlh: For me, it is like 10 conversations going on at once, very hard to follow.11:35
SRabbelierlh: it's "pseudo code"11:35
tlarsenlh: I guess I will just read the logs later.11:36
TimRikerlh: logs run nightly, so tomorrow.11:36
lhtlarsen: is it going by too fast for you?11:36
lhTimRiker: thank you11:36
tlarsenTimRiker: I can read the back-scroll in my own client, but thanks.11:36
lhSRabbelier: checking code review11:36
SRabbelierlh: -nod-11:36
lhtlarsen: it also logs online forever and ever and stuff. ++11:36
tlarsenlh: No, it is just that no one has the floor and three different conversations are intertwined.11:36
SRabbelierlh: the views/model/ module will get smaller as we make the django templates more generic11:37
lhand has some other features that i dont understand but that sound really good11:37
lhtlarsen: i see.11:37
lhdurin42: you have test suites. anything else on your mind?11:37
lheveryone, durin42 has the floor11:37
tlarsenlh: it is just as annoying as when three separate conversations are going on in the same face-to-face meeting room.  :)11:37
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lhtlarsen: it's the way of the open source team. and we are now both talking over durin42 too. :)11:38
durin42I'm going to look into various nose plugins for handling GAE stuff11:38
solydzajshi all11:38
lhdurin42: cool.11:38
solydzajssorry for being late11:38
durin42from what I've seen, they all have elements of suck11:38
durin42so I'll probably just write something basic we can use11:38
lhsolydzajs: hey. durin42 is updating us right now.11:38
SRabbelierdurin42: that would be good, seems like GAE has some particularities that need dealing with for testing11:38
lhdurin42: cool. what does this do exactly?11:38
durin42lh: makes it possible for people to write tests of the actual views and utility functions11:38
lhdurin42: very good, thanks for the explanation.11:39
lhdurin42: anything else on your mind?11:39
durin42Not really.11:39
solydzajsdurin42: I was also looking into pymox for mocking11:39
SRabbeliersolydzajs: yeah, that might be usefull with the django stuff11:40
durin42solydzajs: To be perfectly honest, I find a "real" mocking library superfluous with Python11:40
lhok you two get two minutes to talk about testing11:40
lhthen we are going to ask SRabbelier to update on what he's up to11:41
lhthen solydzajs11:41
* SRabbelier nods11:41
lhtlarsen has asked that we continue discussing the demo on list, so we will honor that request11:41
durin42I'd rather keep our deps down, and I don't see what pymox gets us.11:41
tlarsenI have to agree with durin42 here.11:41
solydzajsdurin42: ;-) there is some project for using nose with appengine already11:41
tpbTitle: nose-gae - Google Code (at
tlarsenIt is so easy to mock even existing classes in Python.11:42
durin42solydzajs: I know, but I don't know if JP and Kumar are maintaining it11:42
durin42(I work with the guys that wrote that, the problem as I see it is that we'd have to install it globally)11:42
solydzajsdurin42: probably not :-)11:42
durin42Thus me looking into just having a '' or something that sets up the environment and then calls nose's test runner11:43
SRabbelierdurin42: if it's only a simple file?11:43
tlarsendurin42: Ummm,
tlarsendurin42: A more descriptive file name, perhaps?  :)11:44
durin42tlarsen: or or whatever11:44
durin42I'm working over a 1.5 second typing lag here, so cut me a bit of slack ;)11:44
durin42Anywho, that's the state of automated testing. With any luck, we'll have a usable testing framework by the end of the week.11:45
solydzajsdurin42: btw did you see the link I sent to the group about testing recipe ?11:45
durin42solydzajs: I did, but have not looked at it. I've been knee deep in subversion ctypes stuff until today or so.11:45
solydzajsdurin42: oh ok :-)11:45
durin42I'll be starting on this stuff around dinnertime for people in Chicago.11:46
lhhave we talked about testing enough? looks like we have.....11:46
durin42I think so.11:46
lhokay next11:48
lhSRabbelier: what's on your mind?11:48
SRabbelierdid everybody have a look at, or at least see ?11:49
tpb<> (at
* lh looks at sverre's code review11:49
lhSRabbelier: do you need people to review and comment before proceeding?11:50
solydzajsSRabbelier: yes I did, but didn't have time to review yet11:50
SRabbelierlh: well, I can finish it up to actual working code11:50
tlarsenlh: for some things, YES.11:50
SRabbelierlh: but before I start refactoring more modules I'd like it to be reviewed11:50
tlarsenlh: For major new things, we need to discuss things.11:50
tlarsenlh: Also, SRabbelier I believe indicated that this was speculative.11:50
SRabbeliertlarsen: speculative?11:51
* SRabbelier is not sure what that means :$11:51
tlarsenSRabbelier: OK, maybe not that particular review.11:51
lhspeculative means that it is not necessarily what you want to do, it is just an idea11:51
lhokay, so11:51
lhtlarsen: do you want to review and comment on 1602 now?11:51
SRabbelierok, -nods-11:51
SRabbeliertlarsen: 1602 is what I think would be good, but I'm open for suggestions on how to do it better11:52
tlarsenlh: During this meeting?  I don't think that is a good idea.11:52
tlarsenlh: You can't just mandate a code review.11:52
tlarsenlh: We aren't going to pair-program over IRC, sorry.11:52
SRabbeliertlarsen: for example the I'm using dicts to store some values, but it's probably a bit overkill11:52
lhtlarsen: i am suggesting assigning action items for following this meeting.11:52
* SRabbelier saw some very awesome Eclipse plugin for pair programming the other day at solydzajs's reader11:52
tlarsenSRabbelier: I am working my way through a huge backlog of stuff you just committed on *Sunday*.11:52
tlarsenSRabbelier: I was caught up on Saturday evening.  :)11:53
lhtlarsen: since you are not available due to car problems, is there someone you would like to review instead? i would suggest solydzajs11:53
tlarsenlh: I want to review this.11:53
SRabbeliertlarsen: -nods-, right, that was mostly in reply to your and pawels' suggestions I think, hopefully it'll mostly be LGTM's, no major changes11:53
solydzajstlarsen: I still have some commits to do regarding your comments to my commits from a week ago :-)11:53
tlarsenlh: And I will *make* the time.11:53
lhtlarsen: okay, great. can you give SRabbelier an ETA on a review?11:53
SRabbeliersolydzajs: -reads that a few times-11:53
tlarsenlh: SRabbelier and I don't see some things eye-to-eye, and I at least want to get my specific $0.02 in.11:53
tlarsenlh: Today.11:54
lhtlarsen: that's a good thing.11:54
lhtlarsen: okay, any idea when today? just because we are all in different time zones11:54
solydzajslh: yep it's better for tlarsen to review this, cause this is major change11:54
lhsolydzajs: agreed. just trying to get an idea of timing.11:54
tlarsenlh: Before 3 AM Tuesday morning, CDT.11:55
lhtlarsen: rocking.11:55
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, then I'll finish it up to where all sponsor views are actually with the new code in place, and put that up for review11:55
lhSRabbelier: this means by tuesday afternoon your time you will have comments. can you prioritize your other work around this needed review?11:55
tlarsenlh: My wife puts on a sleep mask and ear plugs, so I can work all night if needed.   :)11:55
SRabbelierafter that I'll take a break to work on school stuff11:55
lhtlarsen: rock on. :)11:55
* lh makes note: buy fashion earplugs for mrs. tlarsen11:55
tlarsenlh: Ewwww...11:56
* SRabbelier chuckles11:56
SRabbeliertlarsen: it's called "sleepign, in stylleeee"11:56
lhSRabbelier: do you know what you need to do in between now and tlarsen's review of 1602?11:57
SRabbelierlh: I don't have any other work atm except that (and the review)11:57
solydzajsSRabbelier: start working on generic profiles11:57
solydzajsSRabbelier: Roles11:57
SRabbeliersolydzajs: can you define that better?11:57
lhSRabbelier: there you go, help pawel.11:57
SRabbeliersolydzajs: what is needed for those?11:58
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*** lh changes topic to "Want to make Summer of Code and the Highly Open Participation Contest better? Melange is the next generation GSoC and GHOP web app - Code and more at - Want to contribute? Start here: - Logs at within 24 hours"11:59
solydzajsSRabbelier: Generic Profile Form that can be reused in all Roles Profiles, Generic Logic for Profiles (saving in datastore etc) and user view/public view11:59
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ok, so like my earlier Person related commits?11:59
solydzajsSRabbelier: yes like your earlier not finished commits :D12:00
ibotSRabbelier meant: solydzajs: ok, so like my earlier Person related review?12:00
SRabbelierthat is too awesome12:00
solydzajsso we have too bots now for logging :-)12:00
SRabbeliers/too/two/ ?12:00
* SRabbelier figures you need to include teh trailing slash12:01
SRabbelierdid I break it? 0.o12:01
lhSRabbelier: focus!12:01
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ok, I can do that12:01
lhSRabbelier: sounds like you have some unfinished coding work to get done.12:01
SRabbeliersolydzajs: with the new logic and view code it'll be easier12:01
SRabbelierlh: I suspended it till after generic logic was done12:02
SRabbelierlh: actually, the generic logic code came from working on that module12:02
lhSRabbelier: so can you finish it now?12:02
SRabbelierlh: yes12:03
lhSRabbelier: there you go.12:03
lhSRabbelier: anything else on your mind?12:03
SRabbelierI'll do the (trivial) logic stuff first12:03
SRabbelierand then wait to do the view code till after todd's review12:03
lhSRabbelier: sounds good.12:03
SRabbeliergood thing I didn't delete that branch :P12:04
lhSRabbelier: you done?12:05
solydzajsok good12:05
tlarsenUgh, stupid IRC bot tricks.12:05
tlarsenIt will be a feature on Letterman before you know it.12:05
SRabbelierlh: sure, I'm good to get started12:05
lhSRabbelier: good.12:05
lhtlarsen: what's on your mind for the next couple of days besides catching up on commits and commenting on CL 1602 for SRabbelier12:06
tlarsenBesides taking another week off because the 50-mile hike was tortuous?12:06
SRabbelierlh, tlarsen: well, and the fix-ups for r733 I reckon12:06
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, undoing a bunch of stuff I didn't like in r733.  :)12:06
SRabbeliertlarsen: we're a concencus community though12:07
tlarsentlarsen: No, really.  I want to get the Question/Answer and Questionnaire/Response models defined.12:07
SRabbeliertlarsen: I think reverts should be after community concencus12:07
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, but you didn't have consensus when you committed. :)12:07
lhtlarsen: another week off is good.12:07
tlarsenlh: one of the hazards of review-before-commit:  commit wars!12:07
lhtlarsen: you can't always wait for consensus to committ.12:07
lhtlarsen: this is a war i am willing to fight. :)12:08
tlarsenlh: Yes, and the one who didn't have consensus when he committed can't get upset when someone patches over them.12:08
tlarsenlh: I will put my code where my mouth is.12:08
tlarsenlh: I outlined in graphic detail in the previous discussion what I plan to do and why.12:08
lhtlarsen: that is totally true.12:08
tlarsenlh: Existing functionality was *removed* by r733.12:08
SRabbeliertlarsen: see my reply to your comments in r73312:09
lhtlarsen: and did it cause breakage?12:09
tlarsenlh: I will restore it in the current framework of r733.12:09
SRabbeliertlarsen: and also CL160212:09
SRabbeliertlarsen: I believe that will explain why I think it won't be needed12:09
tlarsenlh: No, but it removed my ability to customize the login prompts per-page, which I was planning to do as soon as I had time.12:09
lhtlarsen: can this be worked around?12:09
SRabbeliertlarsen: right, but with the new view refactor you won't have to12:09
tlarsenlh:  The current UI is pretty lame regarding asking the user to login when they are not.12:09
SRabbeliertlarsen: you can define it in teh base classes12:09
lhokay. so tlarsen, can you look at CL1602 first, then comment on r733?12:10
tlarsenlh: The point is this:  the functionality was removed, and justification for it being there was provided in the review-after-commit, but no justification of similar weight and coherency was provided as to why it should not be added back.  But, yes, I will look at 1602 first.12:11
lhtlarsen: thank you. perhaps that would be helpful.12:11
tlarsenlh: consensus is meaningless when some of the parties do not justify their position with facts.12:11
lhSRabbelier: you may also want to add more detail to r733 too12:11
lhtlarsen: we're working on fixing that now, aren't we? :)12:11
SRabbeliertlarsen: you read my latest comments to r733?12:11
tlarsenlh: Why, yes, we are.12:11
lhtlarsen: ++12:12
tlarsenlh: But, please don't be good cop to my bad cop, OK?12:12
lhtlarsen: i'm not. i am facilitating.12:12
tlarsenlh: So, you won't mind being disintermediated, then?12:12
lhtlarsen: what does that mean?12:12
* lh uses google12:12
tlarsenlh: This discussion was going just fine in the code review thread.12:12
* tlarsen fucking hates IRC12:13
SRabbeliertlarsen: if you read my reply, please comment :)12:13
lhtlarsen: this is how open source works todd12:13
tlarsenIt doesn't show when someone else is typing like Jabber does.12:13
lhtlarsen:  i dont think the discussion should not take place on list too.12:13
tlarsenThat is the primary reason why people type over each other.12:13
lhthere has to be a tool that accomodates.12:13
lhtlarsen: i am happy to read on list comments too, but can't read them all. this meeting helps me keep in sync. other people, i hope, find it useful.12:14
tlarsenlh: "this is how open source works" is also why asbestos underwear is required.  :)12:14
solydzajsi'm back, so where are we at ?12:14
durin42lh: TBQH, I hate irc too. It's a time drain, and sucks for having coherent conversations most of the time.12:16
* SRabbelier must be too young12:16
tlarsendurin42: exactly.12:16
solydzajshow about we make a Skype conference call next time ?12:16
lhdurin42: to each their own12:16
lhsolydzajs: i like this idea.12:17
SRabbeliersolydzajs: +1 on that12:17
lhtlarsen: thoughts?12:17
SRabbelierdoes everybody have a mic/headset?12:17
solydzajsSRabbelier: I do12:17
tlarsensolydzajs: How about we just use Jabber, with the "someone is typing" indicator?12:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: skype has that -nods-12:17
solydzajstlarsen: we can do that too, make a gtalk group chat12:17
SRabbeliersolydzajs: that would work12:17
durin42does pidgin support grouptalk on gtalk?12:18
SRabbelierdurin42: not really12:18
durin42(and if so, does Adium?)12:18
SRabbelierdurin42: only half12:18
SRabbelierdurin42: you get the invite, but last time I tried it didn't know what to do with it12:18
lhi dont give a crap what tool we use.12:18
lhyou guys figure that out12:18
SRabbelierI'm fine with whatever is good for you12:19
lhi want tlarsen to be happy with our tool choice. sounds like jabber works well for him. however, skype offers voice.12:20
* SRabbelier doesn't have a jabber profile12:20
SRabbelierhow do you make one?12:20 or such?12:20
solydzajsSRabbelier: you have gmail.com12:20
SRabbeliersolydzajs: that works?12:20
solydzajsSRabbelier: GTalk is based on XMPP and has group chat12:20
lhdo we all agree that our next meeting with be on GChat?12:21
lhif so is there a way to bridge that so that our meeting still gets logged to our regular logs12:21
SRabbelierlh: I'm good with gchat12:21
lhGChat it is12:22
lhi will paste the logs in channel so they get logged by ibot12:22
lhsolydzajs: what are you up to right now?12:22
SRabbeliertlarsen: on the email=id thing, it works only because str(id) returns
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, but is explicit and conveys *intent*.12:24
SRabbeliertlarsen: Pawel asked me to do a patch to clean all those up and us everywhere12:24
tlarsenSRabbelier: That is important in readable code.12:24
SRabbeliertlarsen: right, I agree12:24
tlarsenSRabbelier: Yes, please fix this.12:24
solydzajslh: after recent code reviews, I'm working on Delete Document feature and when I commit that I will move to Promote to Host probably12:25
lhsolydzajs: sounds good.12:25
tlarsenSRabbelier: we have pretty much established "id" in the code meaning Google Account (as a users.User object).12:25
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, then let's go with that everywhere12:25
SRabbeliertlarsen: I'll double check the code to see if it's not abused anywhere12:25
lhok gentlemen12:26
lhi am 30 minutes late for another meeting12:26
lh_Allen_ requested that we move our next meeting back so he could attend12:26
lhdoes this work for all?12:26
tpbTitle: The World Clock - Time Zone Converter - U.S.A. California San Francisco vs Poland Warsaw (at
SRabbelierlh: 3am in the morning?12:27
SRabbelierwhy is our next meeting so soon though?12:27
solydzajs3 AM doesn't work for me :-)12:27
SRabbeliersolydzajs: same here12:27
lhSRabbelier: it was our regularly scheduled meeting12:28
lhi will just check in with _Allen_ tonight12:28
lhdo we need that meeting at all?12:28
SRabbeliernot me personally12:28
lhsolydzajs: you need it?12:29
lhtlarsen: you need it?12:29
lhdurin42: you need it?12:29
solydzajslh: tlarsen wrote _Allen_ what he could work on, so I think he will be fine when he reads his inbox :-)12:29
tlarsenlh: No I do not.12:29
tlarsenlh: I believe these are mostly for you.  :)12:29
lhtlarsen: done, today is canceled12:30
lhi will still check in with _Allen_12:30
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lhtlarsen: i scheduled them because people wanted to make sure i was commenting. :) so i hope they are good for more than just me.12:30
tlarsenlh: I'm sure he will check his email once power is restored.12:30
solydzajsIs there anything else to discuss ? I would like to get back to work and do some coding :-)12:31
* SRabbelier would like to get to dinner himself :P12:32
lhSRabbelier: go eat12:32
lhtlarsen: always nice to say hello too12:32
lhsolydzajs: i think we are done12:32
lhanyone have anything to add?12:32
SRabbelierlh: I like them, it's nice to make sure we all stay in touch12:33
SRabbelieruhm, "Eta Beta Pi" (eat a better pie :P)12:33
lhSRabbelier: cool.12:33
lhSRabbelier: wtf dude. :p12:33
* lh goes to other meeting12:33
SRabbelierlh: ok, ttyl12:34
* tlarsen definitely prefers the store-and-forward nature of email, given his ridiculously hectic schedule.12:34
solydzajsokie dokie guys :-)12:36
solydzajsI'm going back to coding12:36
tlarsenSigh.  I am continuing to code review.12:37
* tlarsen puts on his Code Review Monkey hat.12:37
solydzajsi'm going offline12:38
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tlarsenSRabbelier: was this committed?
tpb<> (at
tlarsenSRabbelier: If so, has the review been marked "closed"?12:39
SRabbeliertlarsen: mhhh, yes, it has been committed, didn't close it yet since you hadn't commented on that version; I'll close it now12:40
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SRabbeliertlarsen: pawel and I suggested earlier for the reviewer today to fix style mistakes instead of pointing them out, since now it takes trice the time; once for you to point them out, once for me to fix them, then once more for you to see if they were fixed to satistfaction13:13
SRabbeliertlarsen: style, spelling, indentation, little things like that13:14
tlarsenSRabbelier: Sorry, but when I am code reviewing, I point out everything.  I don't know until I am done that I will end up with only style mistakes.13:15
tlarsenSo, I send out what I have already taken the time to type.13:15
tlarsenSRabbelier: when I am focused on the code, I see everything (or, I am not focused enough and miss important stuff).13:16
tlarsenSRabbelier: Sorry, but that is the way my brain works.  :)13:16
tlarsenSRabbelier: I don't know how to do two different kinds of code review.  I don't think the burden should be on the reviewer, since review-before-commit would catch this and the burden would still be on the committer.13:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: it is part of the price that is paid for review-after-commit.13:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: That being said, when I see stuff in existing files that I am modifying, I'll just fix it.13:17
tlarsenSRabbelier: This is one of the reasons we do not do review-after-commit at Google, ever (except for to-be-reviewed *emergencies*).13:17
SRabbeliertlarsen: ok, I understand, no problem :)13:31
SRabbeliertlarsen: thanks for the explanation :)13:31
tlarsenSRabbelier: The point is that the committer, not the reviewer, is responsible for correctly reviewer comments.13:34
SRabbeliertlarsen: yes, I agree on the responsibility part -nod-13:34
tlarsenI have *tons* of reviews sent to me each week.  If I had to *fix* as well as review, I'd just stop reviewing.  :)13:35
tlarsen(Melange plus Google internal code reviews)13:35
SRabbeliertlarsen: -nod-, yeah, I can imagine13:35
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tlarsenSRabbelier: OK, first thoughts on 1602 sent.14:26
SRabbeliertlarsen: thanks, -reads-14:26
tlarsenSorry it took so long.14:27
tlarsenSRabbelier: I had a lot to say, I suppose.14:27
SRabbeliertlarsen: I don't see a TODo above existing code?14:27
SRabbelierit's ok, :)14:27
SRabbeliertlarsen: oh, on the silly import naming scheme, sometimes it just breaks for no reason14:28
SRabbeliertlarsen: when you do "from soc.logic import models" and then later on models.settings, it says there's no settings module14:28
tlarsenPlease respond in the code review tool and not on IRC.14:28
tlarsenYes, you need:14:28
tlarsenfrom soc.logic.models import settings14:29
tlarsenThen just use settings.Foo()14:29
tlarsenfrom soc.logic import models14:29
tlarsenimport soc.logic.models.settings14:29
tlarsenand then models.settings will work.14:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: aaaah, ok!14:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: thank you!14:29
* SRabbelier goes to clean up code14:29
SRabbeliertlarsen: how about a script that detects things like that; do you know of one?14:31
SRabbeliertlarsen: mhh, I remember you mentioning it earlier, was there a reason we're not really using it?14:32
tlarsenI am all out of round tuits.14:33
SRabbelierround tuits?14:33
tlarsen"I will do it when I get around to it..."14:51
tlarsen"a round tuit"14:51
SRabbelierlol, ok14:51
tpb<> (at
tlarsenI have lots of the square ones these days.14:52
SRabbeliertlarsen: cute, never heard that one :)14:52
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SRabbeliertlarsen: replied :)15:42
SRabbeliertlarsen: thanks for the detailed review15:42
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solydzajstlarsen: ping17:18
SRabbeliertlarsen: replying now, then going to bed :)17:18
solydzajstlarsen: "Pawel, what about the more-generic HomeSettings class that already exists in soc/models/" You mean to replace SiteSettings with HomeSettings ?because right now SiteSettings inherits from HomeSettings17:19
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SRabbeliertime for bed18:33
SRabbelierholy cr*p18:34
SRabbeliersolydzajs: damn Pawel, please tell me you used a script to sort those imports?18:36
solydzajsSRabbelier: yo :-)18:36
solydzajsSRabbelier: no18:36
solydzajsSRabbelier: why ?;-)18:36
SRabbeliersolydzajs: cos I hate manual labor like that :P18:37
SRabbeliersolydzajs: nice job!18:37
solydzajsSRabbelier: it was my break (no need to use brain ;-) ) :D18:37
SRabbeliersolydzajs: thanks for applying Todd's suggestions, I did not have time to code at all today, have been doing code review (well, it was really design the app I guess) all day18:38
SRabbeliersolydzajs: hehe, sweet :)18:38
solydzajssure no problem18:38
solydzajsI just need to clear my inbox18:38
solydzajsso I'm fixing what ever I can18:38
SRabbeliersolydzajs: awesome :)18:39
SRabbeliersolydzajs: btw, implicit LGTM on everything that I don't comment on :P18:40
solydzajsSRabbelier: ok :-)18:40
SRabbelier(downside of that ofcourse is if for some reason I don't have time to review, a LGTM is unjustifiedly assumed :P)18:41
SRabbelierI must really be off to bed now18:41
SRabbeliersolydzajs: ps: will you code the _as_table template?18:41
solydzajsSRabbelier: hopefully tomorrow18:41
SRabbeliersolydzajs: really? awesome!18:42
SRabbelierhopefully we can generalize even more views that way :)18:42
solydzajsSRabbelier: hope so18:42
SRabbelierg'night then :)18:43
SRabbeliertlarsen: thanks for the reviews (it felt more like design than review though :), that's good I think)18:43
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tlarsen_Allen_: I have not yet gotten to creating those Question, Answer, etc. models.  I will have to do it tomorrow morning.20:17
tlarsen_Allen_: I spent all day getting caught up on outstanding code reviews that piled up while I was on vacation last week.20:17
tlarsen_Allen_: The Question and Answer stuff is at the top of my TODO list, though, so I will work on it first thing tomorrow.20:18
tlarsenI've got to sign off now.20:18
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_Allen_tlarsen: that's ok20:18
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lh_Allen_: ping21:26
_Allen_lh: morning21:43
lh_Allen_: how are you?21:45
lhwe are not really meeting tonight21:45
lheveryone is sleeping21:45
lh but i did want to check in on you21:45
_Allen_lh: fine21:45
_Allen_lh: I just got up21:46
_Allen_lh:  and I am reading the IRC log21:46
_Allen_lh: that's ok21:47
lh_Allen_: very cool on reading the logs21:47
_Allen_lh: so, will we use Gtalk on later meeting?21:47
lh_Allen_: sure can21:52
lhwe will work that out21:52
lhi have to go get dinner, bbl21:52
_Allen_lh: see u21:52
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