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| tyreth | Finally working | 05:27 |
|---|---|---|
| GeofftheMedio_ | ? | 05:27 |
| Gumi_Designer | yeah | 05:27 |
| Gumi_Designer | hey Geoff, I'm Fox | 05:28 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | hi... | 05:28 |
| Gumi_Designer | nice to meet you | 05:28 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | having trouble with IRC ? | 05:28 |
| Gumi_Designer | yeah | 05:28 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | ah | 05:28 |
| Gumi_Designer | does anyone in here use irc through trillian? | 05:29 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | haven't used trillian in a few years. I ust mIRC | 05:29 |
| Gumi_Designer | oh well, too bad for me | 05:30 |
| Gumi_Designer | I'm hoping to contribute to the tech tree, is there a fast way for me to get up to speed? | 05:30 |
| Gumi_Designer | I've been reading the fourms, but it seams any and all links to diagrams of the tree are broken | 05:31 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | read the effects document on the wiki, check out the tree in-game, and look through techs.txt | 05:31 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | hmm... that's odd | 05:31 |
| Gumi_Designer | I havn't gotten through much of the fourums yet, I'm probly still wading through outdated stuff still | 05:32 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | http://freeorion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17634#17634 | 05:32 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/JZ4> (at freeorion.org) | 05:32 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | should be an image in that | 05:32 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | though there's no much reason to look at those images when there is the in-game tech tree | 05:32 |
| Gumi_Designer | is there an artificial environment theory, which orbital farming and deepspace stations might go under? | 05:40 |
| Gumi_Designer | or rather theories about the latter | 05:41 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | actually, a number of techs that I've initially labelled as theories might be better changed to applications... | 05:42 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | in particular, to reduce the average number of theories from 15 or so to 10 or 12 per category would be good | 05:42 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | and I think there's enough candidates for this change in most categories | 05:42 |
| Gumi_Designer | there is certainly a raeson for simplification | 05:43 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | but as to your specific question... | 05:44 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | Orbital Farming does depend on Environmental Encapsulation | 05:44 |
| Gumi_Designer | just as an orbital conony might. Deep Space things on the other hand would require a level of self restoration, true artificial environments | 05:45 |
| Gumi_Designer | a level of self matnence that doesn't need the regular shiping of goods from a planet is orbits | 05:46 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there's no much deep-space autonomous (from planets) stuff in the tree now | 05:47 |
| Gumi_Designer | I'm thinking somthing kind of like places we would send population once a planet gets too full, or perhaps an asteroid colony | 05:49 |
| Gumi_Designer | has this been talked about yet? | 05:50 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | probably such a tech would go under Construction. Perhaps it would depend on Infrastructure Ecology and Orbital Construction | 05:50 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | or perhaps, after Orbital Construction, a system-wide construction theory could be put... | 05:51 |
| Gumi_Designer | somthing like encapsulation theories under Ecology? | 05:52 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | re: talked about: not specifically that I recall... maybe there's something in the construction category thread, but that's a bit old | 05:52 |
| Gumi_Designer | I'm not sure if this next idea may be a little off the wall but here I go... | 05:53 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | wait a sec | 05:53 |
| Gumi_Designer | *paused* | 05:53 |
| Gumi_Designer | sorry, I'm a little anxious | 05:54 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | ... why? | 05:55 |
| Gumi_Designer | I like to think of stuff and learn what others think of my ideas | 05:55 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | Environmental Encapsulation and Infrastructure Ecology could lead to a Self-Sufficient Ecology tech | 05:55 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | Self-Suf Eco could be combined with Orbital Construction to allow Autonomous Orbitals | 05:56 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | Orbital Construction could lead to something about construction throughough a star system... (ie. not just in orbit) | 05:57 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | not sure what to call it | 05:57 |
| Gumi_Designer | Free Floating Colony | 05:57 |
| Gumi_Designer | FFC? | 05:57 |
| Gumi_Designer | It's a floater | 05:58 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | need something techier sounding | 05:58 |
| Gumi_Designer | *nods* | 05:58 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | big sciency sounding words like Autonomous and Encapsulation, etc | 05:58 |
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| Gumi_Designer | Artificial Environmental Station I'm going to grab a thesourus | 06:01 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | well, it's not environment-specific... it's just construction throughout a system | 06:01 |
| Gumi_Designer | finding antonim to orbital | 06:02 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | Extraorbital Construction? | 06:03 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | arguably asteroid mining should depend on that | 06:04 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | anyway, depending on Extraorbital Construction and Autonomous Orbitals, one could have an application called Free-Floating Colony | 06:04 |
| Gumi_Designer | I belive that races that do not emedialy depend on an environment being breathable (barren or inferno maybe) would find it easyier to reaserch this stuff, considering they just ahve to figure out how to sheild themselves from radiation (if they don't like it) | 06:06 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | rather than worrying about ease of research or whether a race can research a particular tech, I'm thinking we'll focus more on whether the race can use the tech, or whether a particular resource required to use a tech is available | 06:07 |
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| Gumi_Designer | yeah, I started thinking a little too far ahead | 06:08 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | anyhoo... in order to add a few more theories, we need to pare down the ones that are there already... converting a few to applications | 06:09 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | unfortunately, some categories (production) are more applied in general than others (Learning) | 06:10 |
| Gumi_Designer | are all the current theories written on the cart you gave me? | 06:10 |
| Gumi_Designer | or is there a larger oene | 06:10 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | the cart? | 06:10 |
| Gumi_Designer | sorry, chart, the one with industrial farming | 06:11 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | noo... that's just the growth category | 06:12 |
| Gumi_Designer | thought so | 06:12 |
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| GeofftheMedio_ | there's about 72 theories at the moment | 06:13 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | across 5 categories | 06:14 |
| Gumi_Designer | the learning area of reasearch will fill with many applications as ships are thought of. | 06:14 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | but I'd like to reduce that to 50 or 60 | 06:14 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | I suspect we'll add a categeory or three for ships stuff | 06:14 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | currently it's all planets / infrastructure | 06:15 |
| Gumi_Designer | are the current theories written down anywhere I can look so that I may help more effecianetly | 06:15 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | the research screen in the game is the best way, or in techs.txt (which is with the game code, game binaries, or on the wiki) | 06:15 |
| Gumi_Designer | I guess I'll take a look at the research screen sometime | 06:16 |
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| Gumi_Designer | what theory is artificial planet under | 06:21 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there's an artificial heavenly bodies theory in construction, thougoh it doesn't presently lead to anything | 06:22 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | I don't know if there is an "artificial planet" tech yet | 06:22 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | I don't see one | 06:24 |
| Gumi_Designer | somthing that bothered me in MoO II was, if you discovered a system that had no planet for a colony then you would never build there even after learning to build planets. But do you think a clony ship, or perhaps an Extraorbital-device could be moved to the system and change a gas-giant or asteroid belt into a planet? | 06:25 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | presumably | 06:26 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there's no terraforming techs yet, but that would be a late-game version of them | 06:26 |
| Gumi_Designer | what does refinement currently consist of, are there any specifics or can indivifual aspects of an application be increased like: durrability, size, output, power consumption, market (military, rare, common), maintnence | 06:31 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | refinements just alter the effects of a previously-researched effects-application, or building | 06:33 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there's no restrictions on how it can change them | 06:33 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | other than not making them worse | 06:33 |
| Gumi_Designer | ok | 06:33 |
| Gumi_Designer | I shouldn't bring up ideas about ships right now right? | 06:34 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | regarding ship techs, or ships themselves? | 06:35 |
| Gumi_Designer | techs | 06:35 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | if it's very high level and relatively quick, ok, but otherwise I'd just start a brainstorming thread | 06:36 |
| Gumi_Designer | what do you mean by high level | 06:37 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | how many or which categories of ship techs there should be, or the structure within the categories | 06:38 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | but not specific techs | 06:38 |
| Gumi_Designer | Well we could break it down into somthing like: Class(size:Colony, Fighter, Shuttle, Frigate... Planetoid), Hull, Propultion, Crew | 06:44 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | explain "break it down" | 06:44 |
| Gumi_Designer | Hull could hold things like: hull slot config(we put the big guns here and we can combine that with this other previously created blueprint that lets us have two engines), armour applications, manuverability (decided by how much stress the structure can regularly withstand) | 06:47 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | are these categories? | 06:47 |
| Gumi_Designer | yeah, under those categories would go applications right? | 06:48 |
| Gumi_Designer | like tritanium armour and such | 06:48 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | categories are not the same as theories | 06:48 |
| Gumi_Designer | wait, I'm backward | 06:49 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | categories are very high-level groupings of techs, like all the "growth" techs, all the "production" techs | 06:49 |
| Gumi_Designer | hull is the category | 06:49 |
| Gumi_Designer | slot config, armour applications, manuverability(structure) are theories | 06:49 |
| Gumi_Designer | and under those theories would go applications | 06:50 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | so you might have a category "ships" for all ships stuff, or "ship defenses" for weapons/armour/shields and "ship ???" for hulls, propulsion, stealth... | 06:50 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | theories are more sciency or idea sounding... as in new models of thought that lead to applications | 06:51 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | so you wouldn't have a theory "armour applications", but rather a series of different theories that have different types of armours under them | 06:52 |
| Gumi_Designer | so armour applications would be a cattegory, I think I understand | 06:53 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | in principle, it could be... though it would be called "ship armour"... but it's too specific for a category | 06:54 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | more likely armour and weapons would be categorized together under "Warships" or "Ship Defenses" | 06:55 |
| Gumi_Designer | there are so many ways to possibly catagorize all this | 07:00 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | indeed | 07:01 |
| Gumi_Designer | is the current plan to keep distinctly different areas of reasearch seperate? other wise sheilds and armour would both go under defences | 07:02 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | they're not really that different. I'd group them both with weapons | 07:03 |
| Gumi_Designer | lets see if I'm anywhere close to unsertanding the current layout of the tech tree considering how my sad dial-up isn't close to finishing the download of FO | 07:11 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | my condolences | 07:12 |
| Gumi_Designer | thank you | 07:13 |
| Gumi_Designer | currently, what are the Roots of the tech tree, are they Ships, Growth, Construction? | 07:14 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there are no "roots", but there are categories of Growth, Learning, Construction, Production and Economics | 07:14 |
| Gumi_Designer | and do only theories go under them? | 07:15 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | no: all techs are categorized into one of the above | 07:16 |
| Gumi_Designer | so there are divitions under each category, what is each divition called | 07:18 |
| Gumi_Designer | actualy just a sec | 07:18 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | there are no divisions under category... just techs with various dependencies | 07:18 |
| Gumi_Designer | what are some of the things between construction and the theories it contains? | 07:21 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | I don't understand the question | 07:26 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | construction is a category. it contains various techs, some of which are theories. | 07:27 |
| Gumi_Designer | from some of the previous statements I was a little confused still, but now I realize I havn't been asking the right questions. There are plans for there to be more than these five categories right? | 07:31 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | yes | 07:32 |
| Gumi_Designer | a category contains theories, and theories lead to more theories and unlock the chance to reasearch applications. you said categories contain techs some of which are theories. what is there besides theories and applications contained within. | 07:34 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | refinements | 07:35 |
| Gumi_Designer | almost forgot about them | 07:36 |
| Gumi_Designer | is there any aception to the folowing: Category-->Theory-->Theory&Applications Application-->Refinement | 07:38 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | well, theories from one category can lead to theories or applications in another category... same with applications... | 07:39 |
| Gumi_Designer | like NanotechCybernetics in the GrowthCategory could lead to MicromacineSpys in the Economics or maybe SpyingCategory? | 07:42 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | in principle, yes; specifically, no | 07:43 |
| Gumi_Designer | I'm just making up randum stuff for examples right now to make sure I'm finaly getting the structure of the tech tree. I haven't gotten to actually see it yet. how am I doing? | 07:44 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | based on one example, fine | 07:44 |
| Gumi_Designer | example: there is a Stealth Category, things like CamafagingTheories would get applications that spread to ships, troops, and spys. while things like Refinements Shields and Armour to resist scanning technology would arive in the StealthCat once they were reasearched from whereever they are? | 07:51 |
| Gumi_Designer | or will refinements only ever stay in the home catagory of thier specific application? | 07:52 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | not sure what you mean by "spread to" or "arrive in [a category]" | 07:52 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | no hard rule, but in practice I think most refinements will be in the same category as the application they refine | 07:53 |
| Gumi_Designer | ok, that makes things easier. | 07:54 |
| Gumi_Designer | This might fall under planetary construction but, would it be possible to "layer up" a planet. Constructing a new crust way higher on it to make it bigger. or does that sound silly? | 07:57 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | probably easier to just build taller buildings | 07:58 |
| Gumi_Designer | heheh, true. Ok what about Mining resources from the star of a system? | 07:59 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | impractical to get anything other than hydrogen | 08:01 |
| Gumi_Designer | a star goes super nova when it it's outward expansive force is nolonger being kept in check by it's enourmus gravity, due to it's heavy elements right? | 08:12 |
| Gumi_Designer | could we make a star go super by removeing the ehavy elements? | 08:14 |
| GeofftheMedio_ | read wikipedia about red giants | 08:14 |
| Gumi_Designer | goodbye two closest planets and life on the others | 08:14 |
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| Gumi_Designer | Hope to talk again after I do some serious reading | 08:57 |
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| GeofftheMedio_ | mkay | 08:57 |
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