Monday, 2018-04-30

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TheAssassinhas anyone ever tried one of these cheaper UVC-compatible devices on Linux?14:42
TheAssassinI know that this elgato game capture a friend bought doesn't work reliably on Linux as there's no real driver for it, and it doesn't support UVC14:43
TheAssassinbut it seems there's some (even cheaper) alternatives14:43
TheAssassine.g., from AVERmedia14:43
TheAssassinthis live gamer portable lite device seems usable14:43
TheAssassinand it's just 80 bucks14:43
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CarlFKoh right, shipping to EU15:04
TheAssassinit's 40 bucks15:04
TheAssassinI've seen it earlier on the German eBay15:04
TheAssassinbut yeah, thanks, CarlFK :)15:05
CarlFKi still say your time is worth more15:05
TheAssassinI'm still looking for low-end stuff though :)15:06
CarlFKthere is something to be said for the enjoyment out of hacking someone elses product15:06
TheAssassinI wish there was a seller for the opsis in the EU that'd eliminate the horrific shipping fees15:07
CarlFKseller for what?15:08
TheAssassinnumato opsis15:08
CarlFKhow much is shipping?15:08
TheAssassinusually from the US ~40 bucks15:08
CarlFKis it coming from the US?15:09
TheAssassinthey don't show any fees on numato.com15:09
TheAssassinnot 100% sure15:09
TheAssassinbut I'd expect India to be at least as expensive15:09
TheAssassinwith something as expensive, you want some shipping with insurance after all15:10
TheAssassinbtw, CarlFK, that atlys board is listed as "defective" but in the description it's said to work, that's a little irritating15:11
CarlFKyeah, I was wondering about that15:11
TheAssassinjust found this one
tpbTitle: Digilent ATLYS Spartan-6 Board 2x HDMI IN & 2xHDMI out Ethernet USB DDR2 SPI | eBay (at
TheAssassinthat's ~270 EUR15:13
CarlFKIf you don't want that, one of the gsoc students might15:13
TheAssassinwhich one?15:14
TheAssassinthe one from israel?15:14
TheAssassinI'll get in touch with the German seller15:14
CarlFKall of them - we are still trying to figure out what boards they need for their projects15:14
CarlFKnot all of them need all the hdmi io15:15
TheAssassindoes google pay for the hardware? :)15:15
TheAssassinprobably don't15:15
TheAssassinwould you say that this atlys board is worth 260 EUR?15:15
TheAssassinI can suggest a lower price15:15
CarlFK"worth" and all that gets tricky ;)15:15
TheAssassinwell, he says something about "used once"15:16
CarlFKhow much is an hour of your time worth?  how much are the videos you do or don't make worth?15:16
TheAssassinbut he soldered a little around on that board15:16
TheAssassinhey I'm just trying to get that thing a little cheaper :) I mean if anyone offers "suggest a price" the price they offer it for must be too high15:16
CarlFKhow much to you value the ansible stuff we have to setup the recording stack15:17
TheAssassinplease don't make it a "worth your time" thing again :) I'm interested in getting an atlys now15:17
TheAssassinwith my 3d printer I could make a nice case even, using some neutrik HDMI sockets15:17
TheAssassinI think I'll offer him 200 and will try to negotiate15:18
CarlFKthat works - i'm guessing you will get it at some price, and know you tried15:18
TheAssassinI was trying to ask "what price should I start with"15:19
TheAssassin200 should work15:19
CarlFKmy guess is asking fo 50% off is insulting, but 25% off is reasonable15:20
TheAssassinand it seems like nobody else's going to buy it15:20
TheAssassinthe offer ends in 2 days15:20
TheAssassinthese kinds of boards are some really special items for a niche market15:21
CarlFKthe board is almost as big as a mini itx mb (opsis is exactly that big)15:21
TheAssassinquite large actually15:21
CarlFKhave you ever printed a case for something like that ?15:21
TheAssassinwell, in multiple parts15:21
TheAssassinmy printer can do 200x200x200 mm15:22
CarlFKI have never printed anything, but watch lots of people do it15:22
TheAssassinif I come up with a design I'll share it with you15:22
TheAssassinheck, I could even print some and send them to your students :)15:22
CarlFKa friend printed a ukulele - i think in just 2 parts15:22
TheAssassini'm printing useful stuff only15:22
TheAssassinI have tons of bottle openers which I use for calibration15:22
TheAssassinI think I printed at least 50 already15:23
TheAssassinthere was a batch of 20 though, same design, as giveaways15:23
TheAssassinI just saw this:
TheAssassinthey say it's the successor of the atlys15:24
tpbTitle: Nexys Video Artix-7 FPGA: Trainer Board for Multimedia Applications - Digilent (at
TheAssassinbut soemhow, there's a shitton less connectors15:24
CarlFKyeah - not enough hdmi15:24
TheAssassinit's got a little more RAM and a newer FPGA but why do they have just 2 HDMIs15:24
TheAssassinwhere's your students from, CarlFK?15:25
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CarlFKI have none - im the admin this year15:25
TheAssassinwell I meant like "the set of students that you were assigned"15:25
TheAssassinas a project15:25
TheAssassineurope? asia? US?15:26
CarlFKnot sure15:27
CarlFK  I want something like that, only stand alone, and more slots.15:28
tpbTitle: Makerbot Replicator 2 SD card caddy by UoBQuantumMatter - Thingiverse (at
CarlFKever seen anything like that?15:28
TheAssassinthe printer?15:28
TheAssassinor the card thing?15:28
TheAssassinI'll show you mine15:28
TheAssassin(sd card thingy)15:28
tpbTitle: SD Card Holder by n2b8 - Thingiverse (at
TheAssassinthat thing is great15:29
TheAssassinyou can't lose the cards15:29
TheAssassinI just lost the whole thing before the 34C3 ~4 months ago and therefore bought 3 new SD cards15:29
TheAssassinbut I found it again15:29
TheAssassinI printed mine in a neon color15:29
TheAssassinI love the design15:29
CarlFKyeah, something like that.15:30
TheAssassinwhere do you live?15:30
CarlFKUS - Chicago15:30
TheAssassinargh :) that shipping would be quite expensive, but I still have this neon filament, and could print you a few15:31
TheAssassinlemme take a pic of mine15:31
CarlFKdo you know Holger aka h01ger?15:32
TheAssassinGermany is quite a big country :)15:32
CarlFKdebian guy, hard to miss is you go to those sorts of events15:33
CarlFKknow anyone going to
tpbTitle: Teardown: Portland 2018 | Crowd Supply (at
TheAssassinwell the congress is huge, 13k people this year15:33
TheAssassinI'd say it's quite hard to _meet_ the guy15:33
TheAssassinI met a few C3VOC members on the openSUSE conf last year though15:34
CarlFKI think there is a small debconf event in Hamburg in 2 or 3 weeks.15:35
TheAssassinhurry up, flashair15:35
TheAssassinCarlFK: ^15:38
TheAssassinit's a little shiny15:39
CarlFKI have mixed feelings about the cap15:39
TheAssassinI used a speedlight indirectly via the ceiling, but it's a wooden ceiling, so the effect is a bit annoying15:39
CarlFKI don't transport them around much, other than in devices.  so I would likely lose the caps15:40
CarlFKin thinking about what I need, I'm not really sure15:40
TheAssassinyou don't need to use a cap15:40
TheAssassinI just liked the design15:40
TheAssassinI'm a hobby photographer, and my equipment needs to be portable15:41
CarlFKmy current problem is I keep finding SD cards here and there15:41
TheAssassinyou probably need an SD card detector15:41
CarlFKI need to stop buying them from the local store every time the price drops15:42
TheAssassinthe problem with SD cards is15:42
TheAssassinif you got too many, your files get scattered across a lot of them15:42
TheAssassinand they all look basically the same15:42
CarlFKyeah - you can't write something useful on them with a sharpie15:42
TheAssassinI love my Toshiba FlashAir card though15:42
TheAssassingreat for portrait making15:43
TheAssassinon events15:43
TheAssassinjust put a TV somewhere with a raspi and a browser15:43
CarlFKah, wifi thing15:43
tpbTitle: GitHub - TheAssassin/FlashAssassin: Toshiba FlashAir™ browser client (at
TheAssassinI wrote my own client for it :)15:43
TheAssassinthat thing has a sort-of "API"15:43
CarlFKthat's expalins the screen shot of a picture.15:43
TheAssassinyou can just put my app on the SD card and you got a portable setup that works with _any_ device15:43
TheAssassinikr :) I often do that if I don't need a high res pic15:44
TheAssassinCarlFK: what software are you using for editing?15:45
CarlFKedit what?15:46
CarlFKi don't really edit ;)15:47
TheAssassinI hope it's free software ;)15:47
TheAssassinyou're also one of these "record it right once so you don't have to edit a lot"?15:47
CarlFK  is kinda the answer15:47
tpbTitle: GitHub - CarlFK/veyepar: Video Eyeball Processor and Review (at
CarlFKer, i guess voctomix is what does what you are thinking of15:48
TheAssassinnah, I was like trying to ask "are you one of these people who still use Adobe's crapsoftware or did you switch to free software"15:49
TheAssassinveyepar looks interesting15:49
TheAssassinreminds me of what the C3VOC uses, this FUSE file system15:49
TheAssassinI think their system doesn't need a database, though15:50
CarlFKsimilar idea - theres terrifies me15:50
TheAssassinwhy? :)15:50
CarlFKi dont' understand it well enough to know how it handles all the edge cases - and there are tons of them15:51
CarlFKveyepar emails and tweets video urls at the presenters15:52
CarlFKand tracks "permission to release" - need a DB for that15:52
TheAssassinI suppose you're a debconf member?15:52
CarlFK"member" is very lose.  sure.  I was video team lead for dc 2014 - I guess that makes me "in"15:52
CarlFKI am not a DD.  thats much more well defined.15:53
CarlFK  you can click around  - as long as you aren' tlogged in you shouldn't be able to modify anyting15:53
tpbTitle: GitHub - CarlFK/veyepar: Video Eyeball Processor and Review (at
TheAssassindebconf, not debian, in this case15:53
CarlFKim subscribed to the dc-video mail list and auto-join #debconf-video - so that's something15:54
TheAssassinwhy "eyeball"?15:54
CarlFKlol - I like python, which is also a snake, viper snake, similar, had to make it work.15:55
TheAssassinaaaah it's a pun, now I see15:55
TheAssassinat first I thought this was some eyeball tracking thingy15:55
CarlFKna - the eye bit refers to there is still some human interaction needed15:56
TheAssassinso, I was checking why this low end AVERmedia thing is a bad choice15:57
CarlFKmostly reading the "recording sheets" aka run-sheets and using what is written there to check boxes in the veyepart web pages15:57
TheAssassinseems like they compress the video too much, the quality suffers from it -.-15:57
TheAssassinwhy can't they just provide an uncompressed UVC stream... I guess that's a "feature" for their more expensive devices15:57
TheAssassindamn you, proprietary hardware15:57
TheAssassinI think so15:58
TheAssassinI guess youre going to say "well USB2's IO rates aren't high enough for uncompressed video"15:59
TheAssassinbut here, it really seems like it's a markething thing15:59
CarlFKwe bump into that - it's tricky to get 720p over usb215:59
TheAssassinhow much delay can I expect from an atlys with hdmi2usb15:59
CarlFKbut at "quality = 80" (no idea what that really means) the results are .. I never notice artifacts16:00
TheAssassinthat elgato crapthing we have has > 1 second16:00
TheAssassinthat's really annoying16:00
CarlFKhdmi2usb has like 1 or 2 frames of buffer16:00
TheAssassinthat's pretty low16:00
TheAssassinI guess we're talking about a total delay of ~0.2-0.3 seconds then16:01
CarlFKthis thing: hdmi2usb -> usb port -> gst client -> voctocore server -> voctocore gui16:01
CarlFKis noticeable, but in the 200 ms range.16:01
TheAssassinwell, my next event will be an esports live stream, commented by two professional casters16:02
TheAssassin200ms is low enough for the kind of game and audience16:02
CarlFKwell, hardly noticeable. more like detectable if you put the two side by side16:02
TheAssassinor the audio goes out of sync16:03
TheAssassinwhich is a problem at >1 second16:03
TheAssassinI'm working in the audio communication field, and even I have problems to hear delays <100ms16:03
CarlFKdv -> firewire -...->dvswitch was even better... but the extra latency doesn't bother me at all.16:03
TheAssassininexperienced people won't notice even 2016:03
TheAssassinfor conference streaming this isn't such a big problem16:04
TheAssassinand, with hardware like the atlys, where you know the software, you can actually estimate the delay very well16:04
TheAssassinand then offset the audio by that value16:04
TheAssassinwith that elgato thingy, which is a black box, I continuously readjusted the delay16:04
TheAssassinlast time16:04
CarlFKwe handle that by mixing the audio into the camera feed16:05
TheAssassininto the HDMI with some box? or on the FPGA board?16:05
CarlFKwell.. some of us do.  some also use usb audio and then mess with delays16:05
CarlFKfpga doesn't do audio (yet) so blackmagic card in a pc16:06
TheAssassinI'm not really a video guy, I love to work with audio and photography16:06
TheAssassinvideo is a bad compromise of both hobbies IMO ;)16:06
TheAssassinI see16:06
TheAssassinif/when I get one of these FPGA boards, I'll perform some measurements16:07
CarlFKthat sounds close to unit tests :D16:07
CarlFKI just got jenkins running last night16:07
TheAssassinnah, I'd really call it a measurement16:07
CarlFKyeah, but if you can measure it, you can test to see if is close to an expected number16:08
TheAssassinyknow, like, using my super-low-delay USB audio device and the HDMI in of the atlys board, record both streams, and feed both with the same audio source16:08
TheAssassinwell there's always a delay in the USB stack of the computer16:08
TheAssassinmaybe a realtime kernel will help with that16:09
TheAssassinI bet you can't provide "that one magic offset value" that'll work for everyone16:09
CarlFKfor the test?16:09
TheAssassinfor everyone to use in the future16:10
TheAssassinI bet the value is reproducible on the same system with the same hardware16:10
TheAssassinhey, maybe we can provide some kind of method that automatically estimates the delay for stuff like octomix16:10
TheAssassinwhich you can run once a day before the talks start16:11
TheAssassinshouldn't be too hard16:11
CarlFKiv pondered that16:11
CarlFKbut I don't really have that problem, so meh.16:11
TheAssassinmeh, iv = "I've"16:11
TheAssassinit's late...16:12
CarlFKyes, that16:12
TheAssassincan you juse that gigabit interface on the atlys into a stream server?16:12
TheAssassinas in, "provide a (RTMP?) stream for later use"16:13
CarlFKonce someone just finishes the firmware16:13
TheAssassinI see16:13
CarlFKwhich is being worked on16:13
TheAssassinlemme guess, GSoC?16:14
CarlFKnot this year16:14
TheAssassinanyway I'll send this guy an offer now16:14
CarlFKmaybe last.  not sure who has done what16:14
CarlFKi use a $50 odroid c2, dc uses  minoboard - $150 I think16:14
TheAssassinthat thing can reencode the stream?16:15
TheAssassinor is the encoding performed on the atlys/opsis?16:15
TheAssassinsorry for all the noob questions, but your docs could be better16:15
CarlFKno - just sedn the frames over cat516:15
CarlFKif you can get the hdmi near the box runing voctocore, then don't need the cat5 link16:16
cr1901_modernmithro: What are the correct scopes for accessing timvideos repos using a GH token?16:16
CarlFKcr1901_modern: what's a GH token?16:16
TheAssassincr1901_modern: purpose? and public or private repo?16:16
TheAssassina GitHub personal access token16:17
cr1901_modernTheAssassin: hdmi2usb's travis CI scripts will check for my copies of submodules (litex, litevideo, etc) and use them if they exist. But I need a GH token to do that16:17
cr1901_modernOtherwise checking them out will fail even if my copies exist16:18
TheAssassincheck everything in the repo section except for the private repos one16:18
TheAssassinthat allows travis CI access to all repos you have write access to16:18
CarlFKI suspect hdmi2usb's travis doesn't have write access16:19
cr1901_modernOkay, I'll try that, thanks (not actually ready to test CI at this moment, just want to set up the env vars)16:19
TheAssassinif you don't need write access of any kind:status will work16:19
TheAssassinCarlFK: when the token is used to make requests, they're made on behalf of the user who owns the token16:20
TheAssassinthere is no "project tokens" IIRC16:20
TheAssassin is irritating me atm... so, 1080p30 is said to be supported, but then it's not16:21
cr1901_modernTheAssassin: I think you can generate multiple tokens based on purpose (i.e. per project)16:22
TheAssassinnope, I just checked, cr1901_modern16:23
TheAssassinthere are only "personal access tokens"16:23
CarlFKI think 1080p30 "struggles"16:23
TheAssassinso you'd need a bot user16:23
CarlFKbut lately so does 720p if you use all the ins and outs16:24
TheAssassinraw or MJPEG16:24
CarlFKthe uvc is fine.  (I think) the hdmi outs start flickering / tearing16:25
TheAssassinI see16:25
CarlFKi don't get it, given they stuff should be happening in parallel16:26
TheAssassinand the outs are merely pass through ports?16:26
TheAssassinthat could be fixed by adding an active HDMI splitter before the device16:26
TheAssassinwhich duplicates the signal16:26
CarlFKi wouldn't call them pass though given the signal is decoded, put in a buffer, encoded, sent to the out port16:26
TheAssassincall them mirrors, then16:27
TheAssassinlet's assume I don't need them16:27
TheAssassinthe UVC input would work fine?16:27
CarlFKim not sure - i just focus on 72016:27
CarlFKwell, currently I am focused on getting the 15 bytes of version string to be right :p16:28
TheAssassinthat's a downer16:28
TheAssassinnow I need to look for commercial capture cards again...16:28
CarlFKI think what breaks the 720 is a 2nd input16:30
CarlFKso if you are doing just 1 1080 in and mjpg out, that might be fine16:30
CarlFKand if not, you can fix it :D16:31
TheAssassinI wonder how you'd produce a 1920p live stream of a cam recording16:31
TheAssassinis it really just upscaled?16:31
TheAssassinall the commercial hardware claims to be able to do so16:31
CarlFKno idea'16:33
CarlFKjenkins - installed, running, security key entered, " Plugins extend Jenkins with additional features to support many different needs. "16:35
CarlFKdo I want to do that, or start with vanilla ?16:35
CarlFKgrumble - "You have skipped creating an admin user. To log in, use the username:  "admin" and the administrator password you used to access the setup  wizard."16:37
CarlFKrage:  Unable to connect to Jenkins16:38
TheAssassinCarlFK: "unable to connect to jenkins" is that the slave's output?16:44
CarlFKslave?  thats what I see in my browser16:44
TheAssassinyou want to install plugins, yes16:44
TheAssassinurm okay that's strange16:44
CarlFKhmm, i was using  and now I see thee is
tpbTitle: Debian Repository for Jenkins (at
TheAssassinah well we used the upstream Jenkins for ~1.5 years without major issues16:50
TheAssassinhowever we used the JAR directly16:51
TheAssassinnowadays I'd deploy it in a Docker container16:51
CarlFKapt update, restart, back to plugin install thing..16:55
CarlFKwhops, tryied to cut/paste, clicked "install recommended"16:55
TheAssassindo you know some device that could serve as some "intermediate" HDMI "gateway"16:57
TheAssassinuse case:16:57
TheAssassinunreliable capture device that needs to be reset from time to time16:57
TheAssassinand you don't want to re-setup resolution etc. on the source computer16:57
TheAssassinsome intermediate device that would keep the connection to the computer and would "shield" it from these re-pluggings of the unreliable device would be awesome16:58
TheAssassinI love analog audio...16:58
CarlFKhdmi2usb device could do that ;)16:58
TheAssassinwell a) it's really expensive, and you'd probably need more than one of these for the use case I describe, b) you said yourself that this "pass through" thing doesn't work that well16:59
CarlFKthats one of its design goals: isolate the source from the display device16:59
TheAssassinsure, but if it isn't capable of doing so with 2 streams at once17:00
CarlFKim not sure what the limits are right now - I don't need 2 inputs, so I haven't really poked at that in months17:01
TheAssassini see17:02
CarlFKlunch time - meeting up with friends, bb in.. hour or so.17:05
TheAssassinsee you then17:16
mithroTheAssassin: Nobody is currently using 2 inputs and 2 outputs + encoding, so nobody is currently working hard to fix that.17:45
TheAssassinmithro: I don't care about outputs at all, I'd need 2 inputs17:46
mithroTheAssassin: 2 inputs and 1 output + encoder should all work fine at 720p50 -- might be a bit dice at 720p60 at the moment17:46
TheAssassinthe reason is, the hardware is expensive, and you'd cut the costs by half if one of those cards serves as a 2-in thing17:46
mithroTheAssassin: In theory 1080p30 could work, but nobody is using it at the moment so expect it to be broken17:47
TheAssassinI personally would like 1080p :)17:47
TheAssassinis it a software issue, or more of a hardware bottleneck issue?17:47
mithroTheAssassin: the best way to get something to supported is to be actively using and testing with it on tip-of-tree gateware/firmware17:47
* TheAssassin never dev'd FPGA stuff17:48
TheAssassinI'd prefer the "dumb user" role17:48
TheAssassinbut this whole open-source-hdmi-to-usb-gateway-with-hackable-hardware topic is exciting17:48
mithroTheAssassin: 1080p30 is the same bandwidth as 720p60 as far as the input/outputs are concerned -- it's double the pixels for the encoder however17:49
TheAssassinIn theory I could get away with 720p and upscaling it afterwards I guess... who notices the difference right :)17:49
TheAssassinthis whole hdmi2usb stuff needs to get more affordable...17:50
mithro1080i60 is also the same bandwidth as 720p60 -- but nobody is using interlaced video, so nobody is working on making that supported17:50
TheAssassinah well for my purposes 30fps would be enough17:51
mithroTheAssassin: The best way for it to get more affordable is to use it and get more people involved with development17:51
TheAssassinI think a hdmi2usb device with 720p capture will produce a way better quality than all these commercial shitcards which aren't really engineered well17:51
mithroTheAssassin: Making things cheaper requires developer effort and we don't really have the developer resources to do that right now17:52
TheAssassinI'm not trying to offend you17:52
TheAssassinI really like your work so far17:52
mithroTheAssassin: It is a goal for us to make things cheaper17:52
TheAssassinalthough I wish it would be a bit more visible on the internet17:52
TheAssassinbtw you don't need to highlight me every time ;)17:52
mithroTheAssassin: You need to highlight me every time as I get distracted because I'm always doing multiple things at once :-)17:53
TheAssassinall this HDMI stuff is somewhat poorly engineered standards combined with annoying drm stuff17:53
TheAssassinmithro: good17:53
TheAssassinmithro: to17:53
TheAssassinmithro: know17:53
TheAssassin :P17:53
TheAssassinI know that btw mithro17:54
TheAssassinthat's why I have 3 screens17:54
mithroTheAssassin: FYI There is plenty of non-coding efforts that you can help with us17:54
mithroTheAssassin: Do you know C or Python?17:54
TheAssassinI am a passionate pythoneer and a professional C/C++ dev17:54
TheAssassinI'd say... a bit17:54
TheAssassinalso quite good at server administration and devops17:55
mithroTheAssassin: There is *heaps* of stuff you can do just as a C developer / Python developer without knowing FPGA stuff17:55
TheAssassinmithro: for example?17:55
TheAssassinI thought you guys were using UVC, so no driver stuff17:56
mithroTheAssassin: There is C firmware which runs on the soft-CPU inside the FPGA -- does things like provides the command line control interface, debug info and Ethernet stuff17:56
tpbTitle: HDMI2USB-litex-firmware/firmware at master · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at
mithroTheAssassin: If you have really good C skills, we would *love* help with improving the QEMU emulation which allows people to work on development without needing the hardware17:58
mithroTheAssassin: Look at these issues ->
tpbTitle: Issues · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at
mithroTheAssassin: Most of those can be fixed with just some C code work17:59
mithroTheAssassin: Also, the cheapest way to get hardware is to contribute to the project enough that I'm confident sending you hardware is a good investment for me :-)18:01
cr1901_modernmithro: Looking at this, are you open to feedback?18:01
tpbTitle: Replace hdmi_in0.c with template thing · Issue #383 · timvideos/HDMI2USB-litex-firmware · GitHub (at
mithrocr1901_modern: Sure, I reserve the right to ignore your feedback :-P18:02
cr1901_modernmithro: Of course. My biased opinion is that you should _really_ use m4 or pyexpander for generating source from templates.18:02
mithrocr1901_modern: I would probably use jinja218:03
cr1901_modernI've never used jinja, tbh18:03
cr1901_modernWell, not conciously18:03
cr1901_modernI just can't pass up an opportunity to promote m4 since I tend to use it in places I really shouldn't18:05
mithrom4 isn't really all that well known - I would say django/jinja2 templates are18:05
TheAssassinI'll check a few of these issues18:12
TheAssassinbut until I have some hardware... :)18:13
TheAssassincr1901_modern: m4 is the last format you should ever use18:13
TheAssassinI prefer to use string concatenation...18:13
TheAssassinmithro: jinja2 is awesome18:14
TheAssassinalthough Python's internal templating engine works well for a lot of stuff already18:14
cr1901_modernTheAssassin: I dunno, it's served me well many times for generating lots of C constants and stuff :318:14
TheAssassincr1901_modern: with M4 it's like with haskell... once you understand it it's pretty easy18:15
TheAssassinhowever, getting into it is super hard18:15
TheAssassinand takes a _lot_ of time18:15
TheAssassinjinja2 however is very readable, easy to use, and the syntax is used across a lot of other systems and is widely used18:16
TheAssassinmithro: how can you need 42 commits for DHCP :P18:16
mithroTheAssassin: You can do a lot of those without real hardware just using the QEMU emulation18:16
mithroTheAssassin: And I'm sure that CarlFK is happy to help test things18:17
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TheAssassinmithro: well atm I'm stuck in a dilemma... either insist on 1080p and get some of these cheap lowend commercial thingies which aren't really good quality wise and also provide only some shittily compressed stream, or give hdmi2usb a try and risk being stuck at 720p for a while18:19
TheAssassinif I'd go for the latter option, I'd surely get an atlys board, though18:19
TheAssassin500 bucks to get into an open source project, that's just too much atm18:20
TheAssassinI'm planning to begin with my masters degree in october, and I need to save some money for this phase, too18:20
mithroTheAssassin: As I said, do some dev work, get free hardware -- or convince others to do dev work and borrow their hardware18:22
TheAssassinI'll come back to it, mithro18:23
TheAssassinthis month, my calendar is filled to the maximum, but I'll check it out in June or so18:23
cr1901_modernTheAssassin: ymmv, but m4 was a lot easier for me to learn than Haskell. I don't think I'd ever call Haskell easy, (and related to the "monads are pipes" fiasco on birdsite, I think ppl should stop trying to make hard things easy.)18:23
TheAssassincr1901_modern: check out
tpbTitle: Template Designer Documentation Jinja2 Documentation (2.10) (at
TheAssassinyou'll feel comfortable with the syntax immediately18:24
mithrocr1901_modern: Most things are a lot easier then haskell18:28
TheAssassinjust found, I'll watch that now18:28
TheAssassinmithro: is there some wiki page on how to configure qemu for debugging?19:07
TheAssassinwb CarlFK19:08
CarlFKTheAssassin:!topic/hdmi2usb/8TiS_Gdrx-k   Limited QEmu emulation support for HDMI2USB gateware19:16
tpbTitle: Google Groups (at
TheAssassinuuuuuugh google19:16
TheAssassin :)19:16
CarlFKthere might/should be a wiki page19:16
mithroTheAssassin: Also
tpbTitle: FPGA Miniconf Set Up Instructions - Google Docs (at
TheAssassinr u fucking kidding me? 50G of free disk space? holy shit19:25
mithroTheAssassin: If you are not doing anything based on the FPGA you can skip that part19:27
thaytanTheAssassin, that's mostly because of the Xilinx tools IIRC19:27
TheAssassinatm "trying" to create an account...19:28
thaytan16GB to download, 16GB to unpack it into, 16GB for it to install itself19:28
TheAssassinthose web security noobs use the HTTP Referer header for XSRF protection19:28
TheAssassinwhich is technically a bad idea19:28
TheAssassinthaytan: which of these packages do I need? the HLx all in one thingy? the "lab edition"?19:30
TheAssassinwth is that "US government export approval"19:32
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TheAssassin... this stuff doesn't work19:35
CarlFKTheAssassin: I don't think you need any of it19:42
TheAssassinit's really a badly designed website though19:43
CarlFKwoo, jenkins is telling me stuff: /home/juser/ Permission denied19:44
CarlFKso what is the right way to fix that?19:45
TheAssassinCarlFK: wild guess? chmod +x19:46
TheAssassinor adduser <jenkins> juser19:47
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CarlFKPermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/dev/ttyACM0'20:20
CarlFKIm guessing there is a group I should add the jenkins user to20:20
CarlFKdialout or plugdev20:21
TheAssassinCarlFK: dialout20:32
TheAssassinalthough I wonder why it needs a TTY20:32
TheAssassinah, wait, that's the board I/O20:32
TheAssassinI see20:32
TheAssassincan you ls -al /dev/ttyACM020:32
TheAssassinthen you'll see which group20:32
CarlFKcrw-rw---- 1 root video 166, 0 Apr 30 14:30 /dev/ttyACM020:32
TheAssassinI don't know whether you should install mithro's PPA udev package20:33
CarlFKwoot!  test ran!20:35
CarlFKand failed. which was expected.20:35
TheAssassindevops, huh20:35
TheAssassinI need to build qemu20:37
CarlFKoh look, new build.  flashing...20:47
TheAssassinstuck for ~20 minutes20:52
tpbTitle: Sticky Notes (at
CarlFKTheAssassin: is your lan on uIP init done with ip 192.168.100.x?20:55
CarlFKer.. pasted too much.20:55
TheAssassinCarlFK: that's the QEMU VM's output, that subnet is not occupied around here, so it should work20:55
CarlFKyou may need to configure something to talk to that subnet20:56
CarlFKwoot, green dot!21:31
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