Saturday, 2016-06-25

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aravind_Hi Carl00:20
aravind_im new here00:20
CarlFKhello - what brings you here ?00:26
aravind_im an electronics engineer.. looking for pcb design work..00:27
aravind_what about you?00:27
aravind_@mithro suggested some projects to work on00:27
CarlFKI'm mostly into software and going to events to record talks00:34
CarlFKand running down the street to get a pizza.  brb00:34
aravind_cool. Nice to meet you00:35
mithroaravind_: I'll be around in a couple of hours00:37
mithroCurrently out at brunch00:37
aravind_Sure no prob.. i will be here till my blankets pull me in00:38
mithroIf you are still around then, we can chat about possible projects00:38
mithroI'll also respond to your email00:38
aravind_Great :)00:38
mithrotumbleweed / CarlFK: the vizzini driver should be replaced with the stuff Ben (The debian dvswitch guy?) and shenki working on00:40
* mithro pokes shenki with a pointy stick - you were going to get that upstreamed00:40
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CarlFKmithro: it may have happened, but now it needs to trickle down into the distros.. and the odroid is pretty far behind - like on kernel 3.1400:51
mithroCarlFK: I'm 100% sure it hasn't happened01:30
mithroI stopped bugging shenki long enough he has probably forgotten all about it01:31
mithroaravind_: I'll be around in about 10-15 minutes, you still awake?01:32
aravind_Sure @mithro01:33
mithroGreat, talk to you then01:34
mithroaravind_: couple of questions while I walk01:34
mithroaravind_: what OS do you generally use?01:35
mithroaravind_: Have you used KiCad before?01:35
aravind_mithro i use OS X01:35
aravind_yes I have used KiCad before01:35
mithroWhat is your level of experience in this area?01:36
aravind_circuit design --> been in industry for last 10 years01:37
mithroWhat are you hoping to get out of this? Practice? Something for your portfolio? See something you created be used? Cool friends to hang out with? Want to give back to the community?01:38
mithroNeed something interesting to do in your spare time?01:38
aravind_Well all of it + i plan to start design services , a small step to be my own boss :)01:39
mithroAh cool!01:40
aravind_as of now, my plan is to work when I get spare time (few hours a week)01:41
mithroSo, I guess your more looking to come up with a good workflow where you can do designs quickly and efficiently?01:41
mithroKiCad is probably the least tested on Mac, but at least you have things like proper scripting environment01:43
aravind_I have used KiCad for some designs in my mac (not very complex though)01:44
mithroAlmost at a computer now01:44
aravind_okie dokie01:44
mithroOn the experience side, do you know about things like differential traces, length matching and impedance matching (even if you have not done them in KiCad)?01:46
mithroBtw what have you used professionally? Altium01:47
aravind_professionaly mostly PADS and CR200001:47
aravind_i was a circuit designer mostly , layout being done by layout engineer.01:48
mithroFinally at a computer now! :)01:49
mithroTyping is much easier than doing it on the phone while walking ;)01:49
mithroCarlFK: ping? You still around?01:50
CarlFKmithro: here01:50
aravind_i concur :)01:50
mithroaravind_: so, are you just interested in the PCB side of things, or want to do the full circuit design too?01:51
aravind_happy to be on full circuit design01:51
aravind_spec + schematics + layout + sims01:52
mithroaravind_: okay cool01:52
aravind_@mithro I understand your projects are version controlled using git01:53
mithroaravind_: as I mentioned, the two projects that I think would be good to start with are, the TOFE-VGA board and the TOFE-HiLink board01:53
aravind_@mithro I will go through them in detail. Anyone else working on those at the moment?01:54
mithroaravind_: the TOFE-VGA was being worked on by seaLne - but he ran into issues with RSI, so had to stop01:57
mithroI believe it was at the stage of the schematic being pretty much done and he was starting the PCB layout / design01:57
aravind_@mithro any detailed doc for the proj?01:58
mithroaravind_: Sure, let me give you a bit of background02:01
aravind_@mithro Thanks02:01
mithroaravind_: The HDMI2USB project originally started using the Digilent Atlys boards for developing our firmware02:01
mithroaravind_: The problem is that the Digilent Atlys boards don't have any VGA capability and VGA is probably going to be around until the heat death of the universe02:02
aravind_thats true, people still use VGA for something or other02:02
mithroaravind_: The Atlys boards have an expansion connected - it looks like the old SCSI ones and is called the VHDCI (Very High Density Connector Interface)02:03
mithroaravind_: so, in 2014 we had a Google Summer of Code student develop an expansion board which connects to the VHDCI interface and allows VGA capture02:06
mithroThis board works okay and there are about 20-30 floating around the world02:07
mithroaravind_: You can find that board design at
tpbTitle: GitHub - timvideos/HDMI2USB-vmodvga: VGA capture expansion board for HDMI2USB (or Digilent Atlys prototype board). (at
mithroaravind_: with a bunch of description from Rohit02:08
aravind_still getting my grip around git :)02:08
mithroaravind_: GitHub has quite a lot of good documentation about using Git+GitHub on Mac02:09
mithroaravind_: They have a bunch of tools which are Mac only but have nice UI and stuff02:09
CarlFKaravind_: I have been using git for 5 years.  I know about 1%:   I commit, I push, and sometimes I clone to some other box.02:09
CarlFKthat's all you really "need" to know to get going.02:09
aravind_@mithro you are right :). I am following the tutorial now02:09
mithroaravind_: The Atlys board however is a development board, which isn't really all that suitable for what we want to do - which is record conferences02:10
aravind_got it02:10
mithroaravind_: so we created our own board which is pretty similar called the Numato Opsis02:10
aravind_so a dedicated board is needed02:10
mithroaravind_: the VHDCI connector however is super expensive - like $4 to $8 each02:11
mithroaravind_: so we didn't use it on the Opsis02:11
aravind_yes i think its a dense connector for I/O expansion02:12
mithroaravind_: instead we decided to reuse PCI-Express connectors instead - which means that the expansion boards don't even need a connector02:12
aravind_ah okay02:12
mithroaravind_: The usage of PCI-Express connectors in this manner is a "open standard" I'm trying to promote which is called TOFE (Tim's Open FPGA Expansion)02:13
aravind_got it02:13
aravind_@mithro so the PCIe pinouts dont match to the standard02:13
mithroaravind_: I've tried to keep it as close to PCI-Express as possible, we just allow the signals to be slower than PCI-Express uses02:14
aravind_okay. whats the max signal rate in our case?02:14
mithroaravind_: All the power pins and data pins are in the same locations, so you can plug in a PCI-Express card and it won't blow up02:14
aravind_ah okay02:15
mithroaravind_: I'm trying to do as minimal amount of work as possible ;)02:15
aravind_I understand :)02:15
mithroaravind_: The signal speeds are DC -> ~1.5Gbit/s02:15
mithroaravind_: PCI-Express starts at about 1.5Gbit/s and goes up to 16Gbit/s (possible 32Gbit/s?)02:16
aravind_is this per lane speed? or overall?02:16
mithroaravind_: per lane02:16
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aravind_okay cool02:16
aravind_any post layout sims? to check sig integrity?02:17
mithroaravind_: So, at 1.5Gbit/s we do care about things like impedance matching and differential traces, etc02:17
mithroaravind_: Nope, we just kind of pray and hope most of the time :P02:17
aravind_hows the board stackup done?02:17
aravind_ha ha02:17
mithroaravind_: We have two existing TOFE boards - the "LowSpeedIO" and the "Milkymist Compat" boards - both operate in the 100kbit/s to 1Megabit/s type range where it doesn't really matter02:18
aravind_okay understood02:19
mithroaravind_: another cool advantage of being mostly compatible with the PCI-Express standard is that we can buy adapters and stuff intended for usage inside a computer and use them02:19
aravind_who will be end users?02:19
mithroaravind_: Things like this -> and
CarlFKme :)02:20
mithroaravind_: so to finally get to the point02:21
aravind_CarlFK :)02:21
mithroaravind_: the TOFE-VGA board takes the design used on the vmodvga and changes it to instead fit the TOFE connector + form factor02:21
aravind_mech specs are defined?02:22
mithroaravind_: yeah - PCI-Express + a couple of extra mounting holes02:22
aravind_I saw in your google drive that these boards are manufactured with 2 vendors02:22
mithroaravind_: I've also been trying to build up things like templates02:23
aravind_Any specific rules from them?02:23
mithroaravind_: so it is easy for people to create new TOFE boards and such02:23
aravind_ah great02:23
mithroaravind_: The aim would be that boards we create should be producible by both hackvana and ohs park02:24
mithroaravind_: neither do controlled impedance stuff02:24
aravind_oh :(02:24
mithroaravind_: so again we just do our best02:25
aravind_then we should really pray02:25
mithroaravind_: The apertus/AXIOM guys (see Bertl_zZ and se6astian|away) have gotten okay results with OHS Park using the rules I put in that document02:25
aravind_okay. I will follow the same rules02:26
mithroaravind_: yeah02:26
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mithroaravind_: so, the current work on the board VGA board can be found at
tpbTitle: GitHub - timvideos/HDMI2USB-TOFE-VGA: A VGA capture board for use with TOFE-8x compatible boards like the Numato Opsis. (at
mithroaravind_: I'll download it this afternoon and check what the current status of it is02:27
aravind_i will checkout from git and have a look around.02:27
aravind_ah okay02:27
aravind_then i will checkout after you verify02:27
mithroaravind_: feel free to check it out and have a look at it too02:27
aravind_okay no prob.02:27
aravind_Any documentation?02:27
mithroaravind_: you can see stuff around the TOFE boards at
tpbTitle: Tim Videos Conference Recording Systems · GitHub (at
mithroaravind_: I'm collecting TOFE related documentation at too02:28
aravind_mithro: thanks02:28
aravind_:) lots of things to have a look02:28
mithroaravind_: yeah, the TOFE-LowSpeedIO and TOFE-Milkymist boards where both done with quite an old version of KiCad02:29
aravind_do we have a repo of kicad libs?02:29
aravind_footprints and symbols?02:29
tpbTitle: GitHub - timvideos/HDMI2USB-TOFE-kicad-template: KiCad template for creating TOFE compatible expansion boards. Fork the repository, rename it and create your own board! (at
aravind_Thank you02:30
mithroaravind_: The original approach was you forked that repo and ran the script to start your own board02:30
aravind_ah okay02:30
mithroaravind_: however, that turned out to be really hard to merge when library parts where updated / fixed02:31
mithroaravind_: so I think I'm going to change to a git-submodule based approach02:31
mithroaravind_: but yeah, we are still figuring these things out02:31
aravind_i understand :)02:31
aravind_i have to do the same as well02:32
mithroaravind_: It's surprising how little people have already done in this area02:32
aravind_why is it like that?02:32
aravind_what could be the reason?02:32
mithroaravind_: I think lots of small reasons02:33
mithroaravind_: Most Electrical Engineers don't use git02:33
aravind_yea its the first time for me02:33
mithroaravind_: KiCad has only just gotten things like differential pairs, length matching, etc02:33
aravind_i have used SVN a lot02:33
mithroaravind_: Many EEs don't even use SVN :)02:34
aravind_we were forced to use SVN ;)02:34
mithroaravind_: The most common thing I've seen is folders with dates in them02:34
aravind_nowadays at work I use something custom developed02:34
mithroaravind_: GitHub actually allows you to access git repositories using SVN02:34
mithroaravind_: as someone who knows how that would work I find it really scarey :P02:35
aravind_ha ha02:35
aravind_its scares me everytime02:35
mithroaravind_: The board I have been working on most recently is the
tpbTitle: GitHub - mithro/HDMI2USB-TOFE-AXIOM-adapter: Adapter which allows the expansion cards from the AXIOM be used on a TOFE compatible board. (at
mithroaravind_: One thing KiCad lacks is the ability to set DRC for things like length matching02:36
aravind_yes. i saw it has an autorouter, but i dont trust them02:36
mithroaravind_: I doubt the autorouter does diffpairs02:36
aravind_i hope in future versions there will be DRC for these features and also we could add production specific rules02:36
mithroaravind_: Actually, I've never gotten it to work because it use to be this stupid web service thing02:37
aravind_but KiCad seems to be good for complex boards, seen some examples02:37
mithroaravind_: To work around this, projectgus wrote an external Python script which uses the KiCad scripting interface to do it02:37
aravind_mithro: apologies, time for me to go02:38
mithroaravind_: That is one great thing about KiCad is that you can script it :)02:38
aravind_its 3.30 am here and its post BREXIT :D02:38
mithroaravind_: Length matching checks ->
tpbTitle: GitHub - mithro/kicad-length-matching-checks: Couple of scripts which checks length matching of your KiCad design. (at
mithroaravind_: No worries02:38
mithroaravind_: Feel free to hang out in this IRC channel and chat with people02:38
aravind_I will go through the links you sent me02:38
aravind_and set up the repo + KiCad and scratch around02:39
aravind_okie dokie02:39
aravind_take care @mithro02:39
aravind_have a nice day02:39
mithroaravind_: Sorry about the pretty huge information dump - you can review the logs here ->
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mithroCarlFK: so, you want to chat about something?02:43
CarlFKmithro: 2 things - 1 easy - I need cases this week, and the one you picked out is out of stock02:44
CarlFKI don't need rack mount... so what do you think of this one:02:45
mithroCarlFK: any ITX compatible case should work02:45
CarlFK             Link:
mithroCarlFK: I even going to probably 3d print a full size backplate this weekend02:45
CarlFKk - i figured it was that easy02:46
CarlFKnext.. have you ever written python to read data from a google spread sheet ?02:46
mithroCarlFK: I think you'll be shocked at how much bigger that case is then the one I used02:46
CarlFKit is?02:46
CarlFKCase Dimensions: 228.6mm x 195.6mm x 63.5mm, 9" x 7.7" x 2.5"02:47
mithroCarlFK: It will be at least twice the height probably about 33% wider?02:47
CarlFKHmm.. I think I am ok with that.  I hope to mount it on the back of a 22" lcd and stuff an odrod sbc in there too, so a little extra hight may work out fine02:49
CarlFKand maybe stuff the power supply inside the case too.02:50
mithroCarlFK: yeah, I'm not seeing anything else on amazon within a similar price range02:50
CarlFKsuper cool would be if I can figure out how to use the LCD's power supply, or at least nice power cord management02:51
mithroCarlFK: maybe something like
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mithroMorning sab_12302:57
sab_123mithro, Hi02:57
sab_123mithro, pushed some changes02:58
mithrosab_123: Yes, I'll reply to your comments shortly02:58
sab_123mithro, once these 2 get merged in , I can push the timer_uart(I kind of have it working)02:59
sab_123mithro, then I can push the i2c stuff(I have gotten it working)02:59
sab_123with a 24C25602:59
sab_123mithro, then will push the FTDI_serial02:59
mithrosab_123: The USB loopback FTDI serial stuff should be a pull request independent of everything else03:00
mithrosab_123: But before you send that03:00
mithrosab_123: make sure you reread my email and go look at the code I linked03:00
sab_123the UVC stuff03:01
mithrosab_123: pay special attention to the things I talk about in the email03:01
mithrosab_123: I really don't want to have to repeat myself03:02
mithroCarlFK: a lot of "signage LCDs" have a 12V output on them03:03
mithroCarlFK: but I doubt you want to pay the premium those cost03:04
CarlFKyeah, I was guessing they wouldn't be cheep.03:04
mithroCarlFK: so, it sounds like you are building a combined "capture+confidence screen" thingy?03:31
CarlFKmithro: correct03:31
mithroCarlFK: What is your setup going to look like?03:32
mithrosab_123: Got a moment to discuss the uart stuff03:33
sab_123mithro, yes03:33
CarlFKmithro: um.. physically or .. cables?   not sure what you mean ... oh, talk uart.. please :)03:33
mithroCarlFK: nothing to do with your uart stuff03:33
mithroCarlFK: What parts are you using?03:34
mithroCarlFK: LCD Monitor+Opsis+Odroid?03:34
mithrosab_123: Have you programmed much in OOP languages like Java, Python, C++, etc?03:34
sab_123mithro, Java yes03:35
mithrosab_123: so you understand the difference between a "class definition" and the "instance" of a class?03:35
mithrosab_123: Okay, so here we want to do something like OOP in C03:36
sab_123mithro, ok03:37
mithrosab_123: But C doesn't make this particularly easy :P03:37
sab_123mithro, ok03:37
mithrosab_123: In our case, we have a "Fast UART class" which can be connected to pretty much any pin in the FX203:38
mithrosab_123: A specific instance of the Fast UART is connected to a specific pin03:39
sab_123But you can create objects to access the same functions03:39
sab_123SO there is only a couple of ways out03:39
sab_123Use those macros03:39
mithrosab_123: Stop03:39
mithrosab_123: we are discussing the high level at the moment, we'll get to the implimentation details in a minute03:40
mithrosab_123: So, we might have one (instance) of Fast UART on PA2 which we are using as a debug console , and another (instance) of Fast UART on PB4 which we are using to send commands to the FPGA03:41
sab_123mithro, ok03:41
mithrosab_123: this usage is going to be different on different boards03:42
sab_123mithro, ok03:42
mithrosab_123: IE on one board the debug console might be on PA2, on another it might be on PB403:42
mithrosab_123: on many of the boards the setup is going to be pretty static (IE On the Opsis, the debug pin will always be X)03:43
mithrosab_123: while some boards like the little FX2 dev board you have can be much more dynamic03:44
mithroGenerally however, this is not going to be dynamically changed at runtime - the pin usage is probably going to be decided while developing some type of firmware03:45
mithrosab_123: IE the UVC firmware might put the debug console on pin PA2 and the CDC firmware might put the debug console on PB5 - but it is probably not going to change while the firmware is running...03:46
mithrosab_123: Does that make sense?03:46
sab_123mithro, yes03:46
mithrosab_123: Lots of constraints + flexibility03:47
mithrosab_123: To make things even more complicated we have different *types* of UARTs, we have the fast transmit only, the timer/interrupt one, the hardware peripheral based one, etc03:47
mithrosab_123: in Java, we would define a simple UART interface and then each of the different types of UARTs would impliment the interface03:48
mithrosab_123: right?03:49
sab_123mithro, yes03:49
mithrosab_123: So if you were doing something like this on a "big computer", you might create a structure which had a bunch of function pointers03:51
mithrosab_123: The function pointers would be set so they matched the right implementation03:51
mithrosab_123: Using function pointers to make C OOP like is a fairly common pattern03:52
mithrosab_123: You can look up more details on how to do this later if you want03:53
sab_123mithro, ok03:53
mithrosab_123: There are a couple of downsides of this approach however03:53
mithrosab_123: The function pointers lead to a level of indirection that compiler can't really optimise around03:54
mithrosab_123: For example, It can be hard for it to do dead code removal, IE Remove the implementations you didn't end up using03:55
mithrosab_123: Pointers are also generally a very costly construct on small systems03:55
mithrosab_123: And you need quite a few of them (~one per function in your interface)03:56
mithrosab_123: So, this approach generally doesn't really work for something like the FX2 :(03:56
mithrosab_123: So we have to find a different approach03:57
mithrosab_123: does all that make sense so far?03:57
sab_123I have to read up on why function pointers are expensive, but I will do that later03:58
sab_123The rest make sense03:58
mithrosab_123: pointers in general are pretty expensive03:58
mithrosab_123: On "big" 32bit platforms, pointers are the same size as your data you normally operate on03:59
mithrosab_123: On the FX2, your data size is a byte - however pointers generally need to be 16bits04:00
mithrosab_123: 16bits != 8bits :(04:00
sab_123mithro, agreed. But lests say I want to pass a struct04:00
sab_123The struct is pretty huge04:00
sab_123Dont pointers help then?04:00
mithrosab_123: yes, a single pointer to a struct is going to be better then a large structure04:01
mithrosab_123: but you should be avoiding the large structure if possible04:01
mithrosab_123: BTW This doesn't apply if the structure is at a static location in memory04:01
mithrosab_123: because then the pointer is actually a constant04:02
mithrosab_123: Generally, on something like the FX2 you want everything statically, preallocated04:03
mithrosab_123: Most types of dynamism are really expensive on 8bit systems04:04
mithrosab_123: luckily, as I pointed out - we only really need dynamism at compile time, not run time04:05
sab_123mithro, ok04:06
mithrosab_123: so, what we end up with - is we want a system where we can say something like "Create a set of functions for using a UART on PA1"04:09
sab_123mithro, I still dont get how you plan to use it.04:09
sab_123mithro, can i talk about implementation now?04:10
mithrosab_123: So, I do something like "CREATE_SOFT_UART(<name>, <soft uart configuration>)" and then end up with a bunch of functions like "<name>_rx" and "<name>_init" which I can call in my code04:11
mithroI can also do something like04:11
mithro#ifdef BOARD_OPSIS; CREATE_HARD_UART(uart0, <config>); #elif BOARD_ATLYS; CREATE_SOFT_UART(uart0, <config>); #else .....04:12
sab_123mithro, so there must be different macros04:12
sab_123one for init04:12
sab_123one for the tx04:12
mithroAs the CREATE_HARD_UART and CREATE_SOFT_UART both generate the same set of functions with the same signature, the code doesn't need to know which style of uart is actually in use04:13
mithrosab_123: no, there should be one macro which defines all the functions in the API04:13
sab_123The API I get04:13
mithrosab_123: CREATE_HARD_UART defines the complete set, _init, _rx, _tx, etc04:13
sab_123We can use one macro04:13
sab_123But the firmware needs to know which function is present04:14
sab_123lets say a macro dumps the contents into api.h04:14
mithrosab_123: what do you mean?04:15
sab_123This is what you are looking for right04:15
sab_123an autogenerated api.h04:15
sab_123Once we do this04:15
sab_123The uart_main.c04:15
sab_123needs to know what function to call in putchar(c)04:15
sab_123Is it uart0_tx(c)04:15
sab_123Is it uart1_tx(c)04:15
mithrosab_123: That is the firmware's job04:16
sab_123So if the firmware is setting the pins04:16
sab_123and calling the functions04:16
sab_123generated in api.h04:16
mithrosab_123: If the firmware might be using the UART for printf/gets04:16
mithrosab_123: Or it might be using it for something totally different04:16
sab_123SO basically you want to auto-generate the api.h file04:17
sab_123Am I correct?04:17
sab_123or off track?04:17
mithrosab_123: So the firmware will define the putchar/getchar to do what it prefers04:17
mithrosab_123: define "auto-generate"04:17
sab_123the uartx_init which we defined yesterday04:18
sab_123Should be made uart1_init04:18
sab_123Just by calling the macro04:18
mithrosab_123: yes04:19
sab_123That is going to be rather hard to do04:19
sab_123What is going to be in the api.h file then?04:19
sab_123How do we tell the macro04:19
sab_123to put its contents into a api.h file04:19
sab_123Or will you call this macro04:20
sab_123from api.h04:20
mithrosab_123: api.h is purely for documentation04:20
sab_123so these function definitions04:20
sab_123will be in the example code04:21
sab_123and we need to implement uart0_init04:21
sab_123in soft_uart.c04:21
mithrosab_123: in soft_uart there will be a macro which creates a whole set of functions04:21
mithrosab_123: Which have the same "shape" as the functions define in api.h04:22
mithrosab_123: but all start with the given prefix name04:22
sab_123What about their implementations?04:23
sab_123Should these be hard coded04:23
sab_123or auto generated04:24
mithrosab_123: what do you mean?04:24
tpbTitle: fx2lib/uart_main.c at 0803a717617b9909e568f9c9ea8c1e64de2954af · RacingTornado/fx2lib · GitHub (at
mithrosab_123: that code should be calling the macros - not defining them04:26
sab_123What I am asking is this04:26
sab_123Do you want the macro to just define the function name04:26
sab_123Like what I have done04:26
sab_123Or do you want the functionality also to be autogenerated?04:27
sab_123For examples04:27
sab_123in soft_uart.c04:27
sab_123we will still have functions called uart0_init()04:27
sab_123and uart2_init()04:28
sab_123assuming the user wont pass a pin number greater than 304:28
mithrosab_123: No04:28
mithrosab_123: The user can pass any name for the uart04:29
mithrosab_123: and any pin04:29
sab_123and who implemets the functionality?04:29
sab_123The macro?04:29
mithrosab_123: So, there is no way you can just have every single combination in that file04:29
mithrosab_123: Depending on how it gets implemented, the macro might generate all the code04:30
sab_123the entir fast_uart04:30
mithrosab_123: Or it might just generate wrapping functions which call internal functions04:30
sab_123in a macro04:30
mithrosab_123: yes, it might end up that way04:31
sab_123Thats not going to be very readble04:31
mithrosab_123: you might get away with using inline function plus constants04:31
sab_123I dont understand that04:32
mithrosab_123: There are a number of ways to make it readable04:32
sab_123An inline function is just like any other, except its body is pasted04:32
sab_123How would that help?04:32
sab_123I agree with the wrapper stuff04:32
sab_123Thats one way to proceed04:32
tpbTitle: HDMI2USB-misoc-firmware/uvc.c at fx2-refactor · mithro/HDMI2USB-misoc-firmware · GitHub (at
mithrosab_123: You create an function like "inline fast_uart_rx(const BYTE pin_location, char c) {" then your macro does a "void NAME##_rx(char c) { fast_uart_rx(PINLOC, c); }"04:34
mithrosab_123: but that requires the compile to notice that PINLOC is actually a constant and optimise it out04:35
sab_123That way04:35
sab_123For the pinloc04:36
sab_123we need a case right04:36
sab_123there is no easier way to do it04:36
mithrosab_123: No04:36
sab_123for the .equ?04:37
mithrosab_123: just make the person pass in the right values you need for things like the pin bit address04:37
sab_123and create the .equ in the macro itself?04:38
sab_123because you need to do clr name04:38
sab_123so name needs to point to PA2 or PA304:38
mithrosab_123: yes04:38
sab_123I will try to get started on this04:38
mithrosab_123: Understanding now?04:38
sab_123I havent done anything like this before04:39
sab_123So its quite interesting04:39
sab_123But I am pretty sure I will run across a lot of problems.04:39
mithrosab_123: So - you can start by ignoring the "genericisation / dynasim" by hard coding the name to be "uart0_" and the pin names just #define at the top of the file04:39
sab_123Is there any repo where you have something like this done(just for reference)04:40
mithrosab_123: once you have that working, you just need to figure out a way to replace the "uart0_" and pin names04:40
CarlFKmithro:   confidence monitor/capture :  1 short hdmi going to the podium, power, cat5 and hdmi away to me and projector .04:42
mithroCarlFK: hrm?04:43
CarlFKmithro:  you were asking what my setup was going to look like04:43
mithroCarlFK: I think you mean, 1 short HDMI coming from the presenters laptop on the podium -- long power, cat5 running to "carl" and one long HDMI cable running to the projector ?04:44
mithroCarlFK: your not running HDMI to you right? the HDMI for the presenters laptop goes directly into the Opsis on the back of the monitor?04:45
mithroCarlFK: great, you almost gave me a heart attack with the "power, cat5 and hdmi away to me" bit ;)04:46
mithroCarlFK: Couple of things I have been thinking about04:47
mithroCarlFK: Power over Ethernet is generally 48V - it wouldn't take much to do a little board which has ethernet pass through and extracts the power needed for the Opsis04:48
mithroCarlFK: I'm pretty sure that we'll get capture over Ethernet by the end of the year too04:48
mithroCarlFK: but that might not make sense if you need to run power for the monitor anyway....04:49
mithroCarlFK: I assume you are just getting cheap PC monitors?04:50
CarlFK$100 ish04:50
mithroCarlFK: do they use a power brick? Or just take a kettle plug?04:52
mithroCarlFK: If you could find ones which use a 12V power brick, there are some interesting possibilities :P04:52
CarlFKmithro: I haven't picked one out yet.  if brick, then it would be nice if I could split that04:53
mithroCarlFK: yeah04:53
mithroLCD monitors are surprisingly low wattage these days04:53
mithroCarlFK: I was looking at it the other day and thought they had the decimal in the wrong location...04:54
CarlFKmithro: modeswitch - is this the repo I should be using
tpbTitle: GitHub - mithro/HDMI2USB-mode-switch: Tool for switching boards supported by HDMI2USB firmware between multiple different modes (programming, webcam, etc). (at
mithroCarlFK: it was like 8 Watts or something04:56
mithroCarlFK: you can use the upstream one now04:56
mithroCarlFK: I was sure it was suppose to be 80W04:56
CarlFKmithro: yeah.. i guess 80w light bulb is mostly heat04:57
mithroCarlFK: Will merge the latest commits upstream now04:58
CarlFKmithro: upstream has less docs04:58
mithroCarlFK: I was sure I had pushed them....04:58
mithroCarlFK: just making sure the tests pass before hand :)04:59
mithroCarlFK: merged05:02
sab_123mithro, Will get started then. Thanks for the help05:03
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mithrosab_123: I'd like to merge but there are still a couple of small outstanding things05:07
tpbTitle: Created a UART API definition for allowing proper abstraction by RacingTornado · Pull Request #17 · mithro/fx2lib · GitHub (at
sab_123mithro, ok05:08
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mobydikcCarlFK: does do the hdmi capture?05:11
CarlFKmithro   do the board have real eproms?  like where is the firmware getting loaded when it doesn't go away on power cycle?05:11
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CarlFKmobydikc: um.. where is that?05:12
mithroCarlFK: The Atlys has SPI flash (for the FPGA gateware) and an EEPROM (for the FX2 firmware)05:12
mithroCarlFK: The Opsis has SPI flash (for the FPGA gateware + FX2 firmware) and a *tiny* EEPROM which just stores the MAC address and code to load the FX2 firmware from the FPGA05:13
CarlFKah, got it.05:13
CarlFKhow do I load v0.0.0-639-g956a8b3 into the Atlys spi/eeporm?   (and do you call that flashing or burning or what?05:14
mithroCarlFK: which is why the Opsis can change how the FX2 behaves05:14
mithroCarlFK: I'm happy to flash the Atlys's SPI05:15
mithroCarlFK: but I've never been game to flash the Atlys's EEPROM05:15
mithroCarlFK: If you screw the second up, it is a bit tricky to fix05:15
mithroCarlFK: I think we should probably use the "burn" terminology because flashing is so overloaded?05:16
CarlFKmithro: agreed05:16
mithroNow I have to remeber what I was actually going to do today....05:17
CarlFKso how do I use modeswitch ?05:17
mithroCarlFK: In theory or in practice?05:17
CarlFKI want to setup my atlys so it powers up in a functional state05:17
CarlFKmake conda ... did that.05:18
mithroCarlFK: "make conda" sets up a self contained development environment, probably not what you want in "production" but lets start with that05:21
mithroCarlFK: Basic operation is "hdmi2usb-mode-switch --mode=XXXX"05:23
CarlFKum.. it isn't on my path05:23
mithroCarlFK: it won't be unless you install it05:23
mithroCarlFK: set your path to PATH=$PWD/conda/bin:$PATH05:24
mithroor run ./conda/bin/hdmi2usb-mode-switch05:26
mithroI'm hoping someone at debconf will put it in a deb package05:26
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CarlFKmithro:  first i want : --mode  jtag  ... right?05:28
mobydikcCarlFK: I think I missed that. Set mode in what?05:28
CarlFKmobydikc: um.. there are 2 hdmi captures - laptop/projector and camera05:29
mobydikcI assume grabber is laptop05:29
mobydikcI have cam1 on injgest now05:29
mobydikcHow do I make it the camera?05:30
CarlFK  ingest --video-source blackmagichdmi --audio-source blackmagichdmi05:30
tpbTitle: dvsmon/ at master · CarlFK/dvsmon · GitHub (at
CarlFKI think thats what you want?05:30
mobydikcI'm using the PC and camera you used at nodepdx. I have the camera's HDMI out going to the PC's D+HDMI capture card05:31
mobydikcI shouldn't need to download any code to recreate what you had running on this machine last weekend05:31
mithroCarlFK: It depends on what you are trying to do05:32
CarlFKmobydikc:  im just showing you where the commands are stored05:32
CarlFKmithro: I want to burn v0.0.0-639-g956a8b3  to Atlys spi05:33
mithroCarlFK: If you want to run openocd commands against your board "--mode=jtag", such as using the make commands in HDMI2USB-misoc-firmware, then that is what you want05:33
mithroCarlFK: I haven't tested it recently, but you should in theory be able to just do "hdmi2usb-mode-switch --flash-gateware=XXXXX.bin"05:34
mithro  --load-gateware LOAD_GATEWARE05:34
mithro                        Load gateware onto the FPGA.05:34
mithro  --flash-gateware FLASH_GATEWARE05:34
mithro                        Flash gateware onto the SPI flash which the FPGA boots05:34
mithro                        from.05:34
CarlFKmithro: is XXXX the full path and file name?05:34
mithroCarlFK: yes05:35
CarlFKhmm, lets forget about burn and stick with load and flash so that we don't have to change the help05:35
mithroCarlFK: in theory, it should find an Atlys board in any mode, switch to jtag mode, and call openocd correctly05:36
mobydikcCarlFK: my irc thingy reset, so I'm not sure what exact commands you said I need05:36
mobydikcIf I want cam1 to be the actual camera should I still run ingest?05:36
mithroCarlFK: that initial switch bit might be broken....05:36
mithroCarlFK: if you add "--verbose" you can see the commands it is running05:37
CarlFKmobydikc: ingest is what feeds both sources: cam and grabber05:37
mobydikcok, so I get the bouncy ball when I need camera05:38
CarlFKmithro: ^^^ mike has all my equipment from NodePDX and is trying to set it up.. yay!05:38
mithroCarlFK: If, hdmi2usb-mode-switch --flash-gateware=XXXX.bin doesn't work we should fix it so that it does05:38
CarlFKmobydikc: bouncy ball is the default video.   --video-source blackmagichdmi05:38
mobydikcdo I adjust that in dvs-mon?05:38
CarlFKmobydikc: today, no.  because today you need the special gst libs... so ... in a new term:05:39
mobydikcOk, that's where I can do set mode -i05:39
CarlFKumm. what is set mode -i05:40
mobydikci thought that's the last thing you told me before I rebooted. OK forget that05:41
mobydikcI did gst-master05:41
mobydikcin the shell05:41
CarlFKmobydikc: cd voctomix-outcasts05:41
CarlFK./ --video-source blackmagichdmi --audio-source blackmagichdmi05:41
mobydikcdo I run that while dvs-mon is running (so so so sorry for dumb questions)05:42
CarlFKwell... ingest sends a stream to the vocto core (the mixer)05:43
CarlFKit needs to be running.  either open a shell and run it, or use dvsmon to run it05:44
mithroCarlFK: so......05:45
CarlFKmithro: PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-1.5:1.0/driver/unbind05:45
CarlFKmithro:  for testing, should I just sudo, or put the udeve rules somewhere ?05:46
mithroCarlFK: you need to "make unbind-helper" or run as root05:46
mobydikci'm rebooting. what's the optimal order to start dvs-mon and run that blackmagic command?05:46
CarlFKI'll start with runing as root.05:46
mithroCarlFK: the unbind helper lets me disconnect linux kernel drivers from the device without being root05:47
mithroCarlFK: I recommend the unbind-helper05:47
mithroCarlFK: because that is what I test with05:47
CarlFKmobydikc: dvs-mon,  click the run for voctocore and vocto gui.  then open a new shell, gst-master, cd ~/voctomix-outcasts; ./ --video-source blackmagichdmi --audio-source blackmagichdmi05:48
CarlFKunbind-helper: command not found05:48
CarlFKunbind-helper.c ?05:48
mithroCarlFK: Did you do a "make unbind-helper" in the directory?05:48
CarlFKmithro: doing that now.05:49
CarlFKmithro: sudo chmod 755 bin/unbind-helper05:49
mithroCarlFK: what?05:50
CarlFKwhy does it need sudo for that ?05:50
tpbTitle: Ubuntu Pastebin (at
mithroCarlFK: I guess it doesn't for that line - it does for the following two05:51
mithroCarlFK: the unbind-helper tool is a setuid binary running as root05:52
CarlFKmithro: bin needs to be added to the path too05:54
mithroCarlFK: hrm?05:55
CarlFKmithro: I am adding notes to the readme, like PATH=$PWD/conda/bin:$PWD/bin:$PATH05:55
mithroCarlFK: I'm pretty sure the code should find the unbind-helper without you adding it to the bin05:56
CarlFKmithro: oh, I thought you ran it05:56
mithroCarlFK: no05:56
tpbTitle: HDMI2USB-mode-switch/ at master · timvideos/HDMI2USB-mode-switch · GitHub (at
CarlFKmithro: Write to /sys/bus/usb/drivers/uvcvideo/unbind failed
tpbTitle: Ubuntu Pastebin (at
mithroCarlFK: does "/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-1.5:1.0/driver/unbind" exist?06:00
mithroCarlFK: and can you do a "ls -l bin/unbind-helper" ?06:00
CarlFK--w------- 1 root root 4096 Jun 25 00:37 /sys/bus/usb/devices/1-1.5:1.0/driver/unbind06:00
CarlFK-rwxr-xr-x 1 juser juser 9056 Jun 25 00:46 bin/unbind-helper06:00
mithroCarlFK: did you cancel the "make unbind-helper" command?06:01
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CarlFKmithro: maybe.  I hit enter until the sudo failed, then $ chmod 755 bin/unbind-helper06:01
CarlFKthen re-ran make06:02
mithroCarlFK: so you do see that there are two very important commands after that one in the makefile?06:02
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CarlFKmithro: makefiles that call sudo is... not going to go over well with the debian folk06:05
mithroCarlFK: They wouldn't be using the Makefile06:05
mithroCarlFK: they would be doing the equivalent in the debian/rules file and the binary would be installed as being owned by root when the package is installed06:05
CarlFKwell.. I suspect the way you have this setup is going to make it hard for them.    but I am not sure what would be better ... so ... never mind.06:08
CarlFK-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 9056 Jun 25 00:46 bin/unbind-helper06:09
mithroCarlFK: The makefile sets up a developer environment - they are going to be doing a "python install" like any other python module06:09
CarlFKmithro: Running 'fxload -t fx2lp -D /dev/bus/usb/001/011 -I /home/juser/HDMI2USB-mode-switch/hdmi2usb/firmware/fx2/atlys/ixo-usb-jtag.hex -v'06:11
CarlFKb'Permission denied : /dev/bus/usb/001/011\n'
tpbTitle: Ubuntu Pastebin (at
mithroCarlFK: they'll probably want to rewrite/rework the unbind helper anyway06:11
mithroCarlFK: oh... That would be fixed by the udev rules06:12
mithroHrm, I wonder if the udev rules could also fix the unbind permissions....06:13
mithroCarlFK: okay, maybe you should be running this as root if you haven't installed the udev rules06:14
CarlFKLOL sudo: hdmi2usb-mode-switch: command not found06:14
CarlFKit does't get the users path06:15
mithroCarlFK: yeah06:15
CarlFKmithro: this installs, right?  sudo install06:16
mithroCarlFK: Yes, but I've never tested that :P06:16
mithroCarlFK: I only have so much time06:16
CarlFK    from setuptools import setup06:16
CarlFKImportError: No module named 'setuptools'06:16
CarlFKok, um.. let me sudo -s and set the path06:17
mithrosudo apt-get python3-setuptools I think06:17
CarlFKtoo late.06:18
CarlFKDNA = 110000001100000011000000110000001100000011000000110000001 (0x181818181818181)06:18
CarlFKI just re-run until it works, right ?06:18
mithroCarlFK: Yeah - for the moment :(06:19
mithroCarlFK: actually you might need to force it into serial mode06:19
CarlFKmithro: how do I do that ?06:20
mithroCarlFK: hdmi2usb-mode-switch --mode=serial06:20
mithroOh, wait you are on an Atlys....06:20
CarlFKAssertionError: serial mode only valid on the opsis.06:20
mithroCarlFK: Just try again maybe?06:20
mithroCarlFK: basically, the different FX2 firmware we are using fight with each other about how the FX2 should be configured06:21
CarlFKmithro: iv tried over 5 times.  normally it gets it by the third when I was doing whatever commands I was doing for lca06:21
mithroCarlFK: What were you doing for LCA?06:22
mithroCarlFK: At some point we need to fix the FX2 firmware to actually properly set up the FX2 so we don't get those failures.06:22
CarlFKmithro: er, not lca.  what someone at DC figured out and I dropped it in the lca repo:06:24
CarlFK  # repeat these 3 lines until it works06:24
tpbTitle: video-scripts/ at master · xfxf/video-scripts · GitHub (at
mithroCarlFK: sure06:24
mithroCarlFK: those are opsis commands....06:25
CarlFKah right.  I haven't done this to an atlys06:25
mithroCarlFK: okay06:26
mithroCarlFK: can you try power cycling the Atlys and running the command a few times?06:26
CarlFKpower cycled, re-ran, worked the first time ... well, new error06:27
CarlFKDNA = 100110010110101100010110111000010010100001101000001001011 (0x132d62dc250d04b)06:28
CarlFKloaded file /home/juser/HDMI2USB-mode-switch/hdmi2usb/firmware/spartan6/atlys/bscan_spi_xc6slx45.bit to pld device 0 in 4s 414024us06:28
CarlFKInfo : JTAG tap: xc6s.tap tap/device found: 0x34008093 (mfg: 0x049 (Xilinx), part: 0x4008, ver: 0x3)06:28
CarlFKError: Unknown flash device (ID 0x00ffffff)06:28
mithroCarlFK: there is one peculiarity with the Atlys if it is still running the stock firmware from Digilent06:28
tpbTitle: Ubuntu Pastebin (at
mithroCarlFK: This board still has the stock Digilent firmware on it, right?06:29
CarlFKmithro: correct06:29
mithroCarlFK: let me dig up the special thing you need to do the first time06:30
mithroDammit, where did I put it....06:32
mithroNeuron1k: we are running a little bit, will ping when we are ready06:34
Neuron1kmithro: ok06:35
tpbTitle: digilent_atlys [Generation of Reconfigurable Circuits from Machine Code] (at
mithroCarlFK: I'm sure I wrote better instructions down somewhere....06:37
mithroNeuron1k: In your blog you mentioned hacking on a model06:37
mithroNeuron1k: can you publish that code somewhere06:37
Neuron1kmithro: It is added on my github06:38
mithroNeuron1k: can you link it here06:38
tpbTitle: litejpeg/test/model at master · Neuron1k/litejpeg · GitHub (at
CarlFKmithro: this?  " The workaround is to set the J11 jumper on the board to avoid power on flash boot, thus leaving the flash in legacy SPI mode."06:39
mithroCarlFK: Yes06:39
mithroCarlFK: I think you need to remove the jumper after the board has booted while the power is still connected06:41
mithroCarlFK: Please write this down somewhere in the Wiki06:43
CarlFKmithro: k06:44
CarlFKmithro: is j11 next to the usb-A jack, says "HOST" and in the picture here it doesn't look like there are header pins to jump?06:45
mithroCarlFK: it should definitely be around that big USB HOST connector06:45
mithroCarlFK: JP9 seems to be on one side and JP11 on the other06:46
CarlFKmithro: so .. jumper off, power, jumper on, hdmi2usb-mode-switch --flash-gateware... ?06:47
mithroCarlFK: no06:47
mithroCarlFK: jumper on, power on, jumper off, hdmi2usb-mode-switch --flash-gateware06:47
CarlFKmithro: welll ... it didn't error06:56
CarlFKmithro: I was expecting the hdmi2usb colorbars ,06:57
mithroCarlFK: Does jp11 on your board have a header? Or are you just shorting it with a screwdriver?06:59
CarlFKmithro: header07:00
mithroNeuron1k: heyo07:03
mithroNeuron1k: sorry about running late, we are now getting setup07:03
Neuron1kmithro: ok, I will join the call07:04
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mithroCarlFK: I might be back in a bit, otherwise I'll respond on my phone in 30 minutes07:05
CarlFKmithro: k07:05
shenkiNeuron1k: are you on?07:08
Neuron1kshenki: yes07:08
shenkiNeuron1k: ok. you keep dropping and coming back07:09
Neuron1kshenki: I can't see you07:10
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shenkiNeuron1k: okay. we can't see you either07:11
shenkiNeuron1k: you've joined, but no video nor voice07:11
shenkiNeuron1k: do you want to try inviting us to a new hangout?07:11
Neuron1kshenki: ok, I will drop and could you invite me instead?07:11
mithroNeuron1k: have you tried restarting your browser?07:12
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mithroCarlFK: did ti work?07:28
mithroCarlFK: Have to run, will be back tomorrow07:32
mithroCarlFK: I'll push some updates to the udev rules which fix the permissions on unbind tomorrow07:33
CarlFKmithro: isn't there another step?07:33
CarlFKmobydikc: you still around?  I'm heading to bed.07:35
mithroCarlFK: what do you mean?07:35
CarlFKmithro: don't i need to send hdmi2usb.hex ?07:36
mithroAs I said, I've never been game enough to flash the ERPROM on an Atlys07:37
mithroWhich is where the .hex file goes07:40
CarlFKmithro:  what does this do: fxload -B libusb -D vid=0x16c0,pid=0x06ad -t fx2lp -I hdmi2usb.hex07:40
mithroLoads it into ram07:41
mithroThat doesn't persist after power cycle07:42
mithroBtw where does your fxload come from?07:43
CarlFKk - so I either need to do that, or hdmi2usb-mode-switch --load-fx2-firmware07:44
CarlFK[email protected]:~/HDMI2USB-mode-switch# apt-cache policy fxload07:44
CarlFK        500 xenial/universe amd64 Packages07:44
tpbTitle: Index of /ubuntu (at
CarlFKhmm, not sure it works07:44
mithroCarlFK: the mode switch tool will aways get the right vid:pid matter what mode the Atlys is in07:45
CarlFKhdmi2usb-mode-switch --load-fx2-firmware /home/juser/HDMI2USB-firmware-prebuilt/archive/master/v0.0.0-639-g956a8b3/atlys/hdmi2usb/hdmi2usb.hex07:46
CarlFKno error, but still not colorbars07:46
mithroCarlFK: I haven't tested --load-fx-firmware recently but as the system has to load fx2 firmware to do the other operations, it would be weird if broken.07:46
mithroCarlFK: you should get color bars after the gateware07:47
mithroOh, you need to power cycle after a flash command07:47
CarlFKwhere is your script to bounce the usb so I can  connect a termial07:47
CarlFKah, right07:47
mithroYou should get the colour bars from when you turn the board on now07:48
CarlFKflterm --port /dev/ttyVIZ0 --speed 11520007:49
CarlFK  git describe: v0.0.0-639-g956a8b3-dirty07:49
CarlFKmithro: almost 3am, I an go to bed now.07:50
mithroCarlFK: great you flashed the right file then07:53
mithroYou flash the .bin, load the .bit07:53
mithroLogged a bug to make the tool check that.07:54
CarlFKmithro: yep.    I am up for trying to flash the eprom, but not now.  to sleepy.07:54
mithroCarlFK: I should do it first07:54
mithroAs trying to recover if we screw it up is to hard to do over the net07:55
CarlFKmithro:  I would like to do it in the next day or two.  that gives me enough time to un-brick or get another one07:55
mithroAnd requires physical access to the board07:55
mithroI'll be around tomorrow07:55
mithroProbably from around midday again07:55
CarlFKsounds good07:56
mithroAnyway, my phone is almost flat07:56
CarlFKI am going to re-image the machine I was running everything from, we can try doing a normal install and see how that goes07:56
CarlFKthanks for your time07:56
CarlFKsee ya07:56
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seaLnemy fork of the tofe-vga has the schematic i'd done in it, never felt confident to suggest merging it
tpbTitle: GitHub - sealne/HDMI2USB-TOFE-VGA: A VGA capture board for use with TOFE-8x compatible boards like the Numato Opsis. (at
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CarlFKmithro: ping15:29
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CarlFKHeading to lug meeting.   back in a few hours.  bye!19:23
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mobydikcCarlFK: heyo. I ran dvsmon, started voctocore and voctogui. then went to the terminal and did the ingest blackmagic thingy23:41
mobydikcI got a no property "mode" in decklinkvideosrc0 or something like that23:41
mobydikcAlso dvsmon has a and an ingest --video-source blackmagichdmi. It's looks kind of like they do the same thing23:42
CarlFKmobydikc: hmm, can you put that box on the net and do a git pull?23:42
CarlFKdvsmon and stuff ... I couldn't get it to use the gst-master libs23:43
mobydikcprobably. I would have thought it'd be ready to go since it worked in portland tho23:43
mobydikcdoes the "ingest" command in dvsmon need to be running?23:43
CarlFKyeah, im a little fuzzy.. but may as well stay current with what I jsut did this morning23:43
CarlFKvoctocore is the only thing that needs to be running - it is the server that everything else connects to23:44
CarlFKingest is: read from something, send to core23:45
mobydikcis there something on the camera that needs to be set?23:45
mobydikcit's got a mode button three lights, CAM, PB, PC, and cam is lit up23:46
CarlFKif you have an hdmi monitor you can plug the cam into, then you can see if it is sending something out the hdmi port23:46
CarlFKmobydikc: im out in about 10 min23:58
CarlFKthen back in a few hours23:59

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