Saturday, 2015-09-05

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mithroxfxf: did you see what CarlFK did in the logs?00:27
mithroHi cyrozap! Are you new?00:27
CarlFKxfxf: I'll get you recording sheets asap00:29
xfxfCarlFK: i'm working around the need for them for now (conference already has started)00:30
xfxfmore getting an instance actually working i care about00:30
xfxfmithro: read the logs, not sure what part you mean - you mean the fact carl recorded a talk with it?  if so, woo!00:31
xfxfas soon as the device works for me i'll be using it plenty too00:31
mithroxfxf: yeah00:31
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CarlFK@#[email protected]#$ "start": "10:30:00",  that is not a datetime :p00:42
CarlFKwhy does everyone want to make their own export?!!!00:43
CarlFKrant rant rant.. I am going to start offering $1000 discount for using mainline symposium00:43
CarlFKand another discount if they supply a patch00:44
cyrozapmithro: I'm here because of the Opsis. It looks pretty interesting!01:20
mithrocyrozap: Cool! How did you find out about the board?01:21
cyrozapCrowd Supply01:22
cyrozapI'm really glad that the Opsis now exists as a fully-Free video switching platform, but I question some of the design decisions that were made01:25
mithrocyrozap: I'm Tim Ansell and designed the board, so feel free to ask!01:30
xfxfCarlFK: ta!  if you can get your Vagrant file working so 'vagrant up' works would be appreciated01:31
xfxfat least remove the 'rm' line, shouldn't ever be needed (it's part of provisioning, you only ever provision a specific instance once, removing existing first doesn't make sense)01:32
CarlFKxfxf: do you plan on encoding in the VM?01:34
xfxfbut i can handle compiling up a new ffmpeg/melt fine01:34
xfxfas well as manually creating + mounting another disk instance in the virtualbox if required01:34
cyrozapmithro: Oh, ok, well, for starters, why use a Spartan-6 when the Artix-7 uses less power, is less expensive and more powerful, and doesn't require an outdated IDE (ISE)?01:35
mithrocyrozap: Couple of reasons, when we started the project (~2 years ago) the Artix-7 wasn't readily available and our existing prototyping platform was a Spartan 6 and we didn't want to change up to much for our first attempt at doing hardware.01:37
mithrocyrozap: If the Opsis is successful there is no doubt we will look at doing an Artix-7 based board in the future.01:38
cyrozapmithro: Ah, I see, that might also answer my next question. Also, I apologize if that question came across as a little accusatory.01:40
CarlFK(veyepar)[email protected]:~$ dvsource-v4l2-other01:41
CarlFKusage: dvsource-v4l2-other [-d DEVICE] [-c CAPS] [-s {ntsc,pal}]01:41
CarlFKworks! woo, first working package!01:41
mithrocyrozap: Nah - If we were doing the design from scratch today we would probably be using the Artix-701:41
mithrocyrozap: I actually dislike Vivado more than ISE - both are a pile of crap, atleast ISE has been around for long enough that most of the major bugs have answers on :P01:42
cyrozapmithro: I almost never use the IDEs since you can run all the steps with a Makefile, so I care more about the synthesis, mapping, and P&R bugs getting fixed than any of the IDE's features01:44
mithrocyrozap: ISE also does Verilog+VHDL together easily which I believe Vivado doesn't yet do01:45
cyrozapmithro: Anyways, here's my next question: Why use a Realtek Ethernet PHY whose documentation can only be acquired through an NDA or piracy when companies like Micrel produce PHYs with freely-available documentation (you don't even need to register if you know the direct URL)?01:45
mithrocyrozap: Ability of my manufacture to source them them at the right price and the fact they are a simple PHY that doesn't really "do" much.01:47
mithrocyrozap: And the fact they already use them in other boards they do means they have that supply chain set up01:47
CarlFKxfxf: I am having other problems - you may want to follow along  /j #vagrant01:50
cyrozapmithro: I kinda figured it was a supply chain/price thing, like how Numato also seems to like to use PICs instead of a microcontroller with a fully-free toolchain and supporting libraries (PIC requires some proprietary Microchip libraries).01:50
mithrocyrozap: I've always used PICs with FOSS tools01:51
mithrocyrozap: It's always annoyed me the bad rap that Microchip gets compared to Atmel. Microchip was significantly more supportive of the hobbyist for a long time. They had much better ICs for significantly cheaper and having a program which would ship anyone in the world free samples. They where also happy to deal with someone who only wanted to order 20-30 of01:55
mithroa part.01:55
cyrozapmithro: I know you can use SDCC, but don't you need at least one binary blob for initialization?01:58
mithrocyrozap: Not for the PICs I was using 10 years ago - dunno how things are these days01:59
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tpbTitle: SDCC Library Licenses - SDCC wiki (at
cyrozapmithro: "Microchip requires that 'The header files should state that they are only to be used with authentic Microchip devices' which makes them incompatible with the GPL."02:01
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cyrozapmithro: So I guess it's technically open source, but non-free02:02
mithrocyrozap: IIRC There are header files you can use which are not derived from Microchip's code but they are less complete02:03
mithrocyrozap: anyway - No PICs in this design, a previous design did have a PIC for doing power management and add a bunch of LEDs and stuff - but we ditched that02:06
cyrozapmithro: Yeah, I was really happy about the choice to use the FX202:06
mithrocyrozap: I'm not, its expensive and only USB2.0 - but again we didn't want to change too much on our first board02:07
cyrozapmithro: Well, I meant I was excited since it can run free firmware, but I'm not aware of any USB 3.0 controllers that will do that02:10
mithrocyrozap: See the Daisho project!
tpbTitle: daisho/sw/fpga/common/usb3 at master · mossmann/daisho · GitHub (at
cyrozapmithro: Oh, neat! I was hoping you'd prove me wrong with something for the FX3 since my BladeRF uses that, but this is good for new designs!02:13
mithrocyrozap: FX3 seems to have a smattering of FOSS firmware stuff02:14
mithrocyrozap: I'm interested in trying to get someone to port the daisho firmware to use high speed transceivers rather then needing the external TI phys02:17
mithrocyrozap: But I only have so much disposable income to fund developers02:17
mithrocyrozap: FYI - The Opsis and TimVideos projects are my hobby not my day job :)02:31
mithrocyrozap: Are you "Nuand" then?02:32
cyrozapmithro: No, I just backed their kickstarter02:38
mithrocyrozap: ahh - I was hoping that "my BladeRF" was "my design for the BladeRF" :)02:39
cyrozapmithro: Haha, I wish! Unfortunately, my PCB design skills aren't _that_ good.02:46
mithrocyrozap: so what is your interest in the Opsis board?02:52
cyrozapmithro: Well, when I first saw it, I thought it would be great as a replacement for the BlackMagic rack-mounted HDMI switches that are used at the company I've been interning at02:53
cyrozapmithro: They're $1000, and yet they're pretty buggy02:54
xfxfthe atem TV studio?02:55
cyrozapxfxf: Yeah, that's the one02:56
xfxfyeah, i use them currently for HD capture, not ideal for a number of reasons02:56
cyrozapxfxf: What do you mean? I haven't used one myself, so I don't know exactly what issues it has.03:01
xfxfproprietary/non-extensible, require either dedicated HW to control them or OS X / windows software (not linux), can often get into strange states where they freeze + need power cycling, don't do pass through (so need extra hardware to split out HDMI signals), all inputs need to be exactly the same resolution as it's not a scan converter (so you need to use03:18
xfxfHDMI scalers), etc03:18
xfxffor the cost, they're the best option currently, but certainly can be improved on a ton03:18
mithroWell I'm going to get food - will be back in an hour03:22
CarlFKxfxf: what are you using for kiwi?03:24
xfxfguess ;)03:27
xfxfthe AV here is from like 1999 and because it's a weekend the AV team has gone AWOL03:28
xfxfand the emergency number i got isn't being answered by everybody03:28
xfxfi've had to creatively work around a few issues03:28
xfxfbut... uni av... unfortunately normal03:28
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mithroI have food now!03:52
mithroAnd about enough energy to eat it, send one more email and then sleep for like 12 hours03:52
xfxfback in oz yet?03:55
xfxfCarlFK: any luck w/ Vagrant?  I'm going to start debugging myself - noticed a few issues just then03:59
CarlFKxfxf: it barfs right away: vagrant up; /usr/lib/ruby/2.1.0/rubygems/version.rb:202:in `initialize': Malformed version number string virtualbox (ArgumentError)04:00
xfxfdoesn't for me04:00
xfxfi'll try and get it working for me and submit you a PR04:00
CarlFKxfxf: Vagrant file doesn't do much for veyepar.  can't you just bring up a vm?04:00
xfxfthere's all sorts of things I *can* do, i'm just trying to get your way of installing it working04:05
xfxfthe reason others are writing veyepar clones is "veyepar is hard to install"04:06
xfxfi'm trying to help you fix this :)04:06
xfxfmy assumption was the vagrant file was Working For You (tm)04:07
xfxfbut i think i've spotted at least two issues which will prevent it from properly working period04:07
xfxftesting now04:07
xfxfprobably be good to move a bunch of your stuff in into an ansible thing too04:09
xfxfyep, got through tests04:18
xfxfi'll send a PR04:18
CarlFKI think the reason people are writing clones is because veyepar does too much and you get overwhelmed with all the options04:22
CarlFK2 years in a row DC has stuffed up the image at the end of the video because they forgot about it04:23
xfxfi still think there's a way to achieve both newbie friendly but featureful but that requires me writing code which i don't have any time to write currently04:23
CarlFKthis year they had one that wasn't right, got it fixed but forgot to copy the file.  so it used the 'bad' one04:23
CarlFKyou might be right, but I don't think it is worth the effort04:24
xfxfi think it is04:24
CarlFKthen write the code :p04:24
xfxfit'll stop this silly fragmentation of people expending energy solving the same issue04:24
xfxfya i know04:24
CarlFKno it wont04:24
xfxfthis is why i'm not complaining too loudly04:24
xfxfit will, there's a point where if it's convenient enough to install and 'just work' then it'll overthrow the whole not-invented-here-syndrome thing somewhat04:25
xfxfbut it'll involve a bit of refactoring of the UI04:25
CarlFKsomewhat.. maybe.04:26
xfxfwhich is not a trivial effort04:26
xfxfall i know is after you i'm the next best person on the planet who knows the codebase/product and even i'm hitting bumps04:27
xfxfand that's definitely an issue04:27
xfxfbut i'll just shut up and fix it and submit PR's :P04:27
CarlFKrm veyepar/dj/scripts/tests.txt - does that abort if the file doesn't exist ?04:33
xfxf#!/bin/bash -ex04:34
xfxfthat shouldn't be in a vagrant file04:34
xfxfas per above ideally we'd remove the $script part entirely and use ansible04:35
xfxfwhich i can do, just can't now04:35
CarlFKI can see that.  tests.txt should be deleted if it exists.04:35
xfxfit shouldn't if you're provisioning a new VM04:35
CarlFKconfig.ssh.forward_x11 = true  I know what that does, but why is it needed?04:36
xfxfbecause i might want to do something silly like run a local web browser inside of the instance04:36
xfxfyou can't easily do things like 'ssh -X' with a vagrant instance as you use 'vagrant ssh' to access it04:36
xfxfi've made a couple of other changes now i'm testing with a new provision that sets up a private network + port forwards the django testing server port04:37
CarlFKI think you have a different use for Vagrant file than I did04:37
xfxfif we wanted to get fancy we'd stick in wsgi/nginx and just have it 'work'04:37
CarlFKI made that for GsoC students to show that can work.04:37
xfxfi'm trying to use it so i can easily get a instance running on <random machine?04:38
xfxfif we include all of the encoding tools it means we can use random people's laptops as part of the render farm at conferences04:38
xfxfright now using it to provison an instance on my OS X laptop04:38
xfxfthe i7 in this thing encodes videos at about 10x the speed as one of those older core 2 duos :)04:39
CarlFKI think your laptop is the only place this will ever get used04:39
xfxfi'm getting this working so others can get veyepar working pretty easily04:39
xfxfgit clone, vagrant up = working instance04:39
xfxfeven if the script is a little janky still04:39
CarlFKI can't even get mithro to install vagrant04:39
xfxfi guess you could docker-ise it but i consider that overkill for this application04:40
CarlFKso I can 1/2 understand your plan, but I have no faith04:40
xfxfworks for me now04:41
CarlFKbtw - to set up the server with nginx and postgres:
tpbTitle: veyepar/ at master · CarlFK/veyepar · GitHub (at
xfxfoh fabric04:42
mithroxfxf: all scripts should be "set -ex", if you expect something to fail use "|| true" or wrap it in an if statement - things silently failing when you don't expect them too is *bad*04:42
xfxfmithro: agreed, i didn't put that in there though, i'm just getting carl's existing script working without refactoring everything04:43
CarlFKxfxf: you broke it for my use :p04:43
xfxfand doesn't have 'set -ex' at all, which is resulting exactly in the issues i've had (earlier libraries didn't install properly, causing later things to fail)04:43
CarlFKnow when I test it on my laptop .. umm.04:43
CarlFK -ex - is e for Echo and X for .. abort on error ?04:45
CarlFKI can never remember.  I am surprised I don't have it on   I like having it everywhere.04:45
CarlFKwtf.. why am I installing fonts?04:46
xfxfi have no idea04:47
xfxffrom a dropbox url too iirc04:47
CarlFKI think that was for DC - their title svg had nifty fonts.04:47
CarlFKand I wanted to make it easy for them.04:47
xfxfyou seem to alter veyepar for specific conferences you do so i assume you did that so you could get somebody's intro slides with a non-standard font easily deployed to other places04:47
xfxfright, nod04:47
CarlFKI try to make as much of that config options.. and you see what happened ;)04:48
CarlFKI had to write a config checker because I can't keep track of all the options04:48
CarlFKspeaking of that.. have you tried it yet?  (veyepar)[email protected]:~/src/veyepar/dj/scripts$ python ck_setup.py04:53
CarlFKyou get colored output04:53
CarlFKmithro: did you see the few seconds of mp4 i made from the hdmi dv ?05:02
mithroCarlFK: no?05:02
CarlFK(01:21:17 AM) CarlFK: mithro:
xfxfCarlFK: it's complaining about no richard_id in, assume that's needed?05:04
mithroCarlFK: it seems rather fuzzy?05:04
CarlFKxfxf: richard is pyvideo05:05
xfxfmithro: i'm guessing carlfk is downconverting it to DV to use in dvswitch (which... i understand the motive for but personally i am never going to use hdmi2usb like that ever)05:05
xfxfCarlFK: ya i know but why is that needed for that test?05:05
xfxfi don't even have a richard api key/pass05:05
CarlFKxfxf: "richard_id in" implies you have an id set in the client record, which tells it what api key to look up in pw.py05:07
CarlFKso if you dont' have a key, richard_id should be blank05:07
mithroCarlFK: That was recorded using dvsource-v4l-other?05:07
CarlFKmithro: yes05:07
mithroCarlFK: why is that .mp4 file so huge?05:08
xfxfCarlFK: this is running that command you wanted me to test straight after a provision05:08
CarlFKmithro: i set the h264 encoder quality to 100%05:08
CarlFKxfxf: hmm. is the complaining red or yellow ?05:08
CarlFKthen you can ignore it05:09
CarlFKred = will break later05:09
CarlFKyellow = missing a feature I normally want05:09
tpbTitle: Pastebin | IRCCloud (at
CarlFKxfxf: oh right... you haven't setup any data for the show right?05:12
xfxfi'm not clear on when you want me to run that test05:14
CarlFKonce you have created a new client and show record05:15
CarlFKxfxf: who's youtube account are you uploading to?05:23
xfxfkiwi pycon's05:36
CarlFKput "kiwi" in the client Youtube id05:37
CarlFKin pw.py05:40
CarlFKyt = {05:40
CarlFK  'kiwi':{05:40
CarlFK      'name':'kiwi PyCon',05:40
CarlFK      'filename':'oauth2-kiwi.json'}, }05:40
CarlFK(yes, kinda redundant.  I am struggling with password management)05:42
CarlFKoauth2-kiwi.json will get created by lib/youtube_v3_uploader.py05:42
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CarlFKI am off to bed.07:46
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tvCommitBot[website] mithro pushed 1 new commit to master:
tvCommitBotwebsite/master d44fbd3 Tim 'mithro' Ansell: Auto-updating banner.08:00
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_anomaly_heya xfxf, micolous10:29
_anomaly_xfxf informed me there's a crowd funding campaign for the numato opsis now, just wondering if you plan to move to a 7-series fpga part soon before production?  the 6's are kind of eol-ish afaik10:40
_anomaly_might get harder to supply in future10:40
_anomaly_i've already ran in to trouble getting xilinx to support 6-series10:40
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mithro_anomaly_: if the Opsis is successful then we will definitely be looking into doing a board with an Artix-7 but that would be a while away. People are still regularly using Spartan-3, so I still think the 6 had got a lot of legs.15:40
mithroAnyway, back to sleep for me...15:41
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mithroCarlFK: where did you put your changes for the dvsource-v4l-other?23:11
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tpb<$r> (at
tpbTitle: Debian Package Tracker - gstreamer0.10-dvswitch (at
CarlFKtumbleweed: mithro I have a gs1.0 package on my ppa23:26
CarlFKcatching up...23:26
mithroCarlFK: link?23:26
tpbTitle: Packages in “PPA for Carl Karsten” : PPA for Carl Karsten : Carl Karsten (at
mithroCarlFK: I mean the changes you made to do that23:28
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CarlFKtumbleweed: can you help me figure out what files in /debian I need?23:55
tumbleweedCarlFK: I'm just busy cleaning up that package23:59
tumbleweedI'll file a PR on github when I'm done23:59
CarlFKtumbleweed: thanks23:59

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