Thursday, 2013-04-11

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mithrohello GChriss00:05
GChrissjust learned about timtv earlier today, browsing the GSoC projects for this year.  also realized it was the same project mentioned to me a few weeks ago by jeremyb00:11
GChrissat libreplanet00:11
mithroGChriss, What do you want to know?00:12
mithrowhich part to do you think interests you the most?00:12
GChrisstwo things, really: 1) read/learn about the project in a general sense, and 2) compare notes/ideas00:13
GChrissI do a substantial amount of conference streaming myself, using gstreamer00:14
mithrowe use flumotion which uses gstreamer as a backend00:15
GChrissyup!  i think it will be a neat conversation00:15
GChrissyes, I've used flumotion in the past00:16
GChrissas well as Livetranscoding.com00:16
mithroI haven't used LiveTranscoding.com00:16
GChrissmost recently trained FSF staff on libreplanet streaming, Students for Free Culture (April 20-21st) up next00:17
GChrissit's in large part a flumotion rebranding effort, with added features00:18
mithroGChriss, so I normally hang out on the #fluendo channel00:18
mithroGChriss, as far as I could tell they where effectively dead?00:18
mithroI'd love to know they are not00:18
GChriss'dead' is a strong word, but active is not really the case either.  I would say that most of the Flumotion-related effort is being put into livetranscoding.com00:20
mithroGChriss, as I finally got around to figuring out last night00:22
mithroWe hope that, through our projects, the costs and expertise currently required to produce live streaming events will be reduced to near zero. We wish to develop a system where everyone has the ability to record presentations and host live remote participants across the globe.00:22
mithroand the following lovely diagram
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mithroOne project I'd really like to see is flumotion ported to gstreamer-1.0, dunno if that interests you or not00:24
GChrisslast I checked, only accepted FME and Flumotion (software) video sources; thomasvs mentioned that there's a sample script in the Flumotion codebase that allows an arbitrary gstreamer pipeline to be used as a Flumotion source (disabling the usual Flumotion controls)00:24
GChrissI've had better experiences with Icecast, and thus go separate ways from Flumotion00:25
GChrissbut I'm familiar with their platform00:26
mithroFlumotion has a "pipeline producer" which just takes a gstreamer pipeline :)00:26
GChrissthere's several other video streaming software packages that do interesting things00:26
mithroI found Icecast great for doing single format video streaming00:26
mithroBut I really need a service which does transcoding on the server00:27
GChrisswhich is primarily my use case.  also take a look at entropy wave,, and rtmpserver00:28
mithronever heard of them00:28
mithroThe one thing I like about flumotion is when one dodgy part crashes it doesn't take out the whole system00:29
mithroGChriss, I'd probably accept any gstreamer related project which helps live streaming in general00:30
mithro(into GSoC)00:30
mithroGChriss, I kinda assume you where here for Google Summer of Code - but maybe not?00:31
GChrissI'm primarily Open Video Productions, L.L.C. + OpenMeetings.org00:32
mithroBTW Do you know Carl Karsten?00:32
GChrissdescribed in some detail at
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GChriss(cool bot)00:32
mithroIt's just a stock Supybot00:33
mithroWebRTC stuff in Gstreamer would make me *super* excited :)00:33
mithroGChriss, btw - you need a better logo :)00:34
GChrissalso see
GChrissor in, full,
tpbTitle: openvideopro (openvideopro) auf Twitter (at
mithroGChriss, I got involved with NextDayVideo after doing PyCon US and Linux.conf.au00:36
GChrissI haven't met Carl Karsten00:37
mithroYou guys are going to collide eventually00:38
GChrissI think so -- just reading over NextDayVideo is a description of software features I have in mind00:40
mithroThey use a system called DVSwitch for now00:43
mithroI'm hoping to replace it with gst-switch (which is based on gstreamer)00:43
GChrissyes, I recall DVSwitch from a few years ago -- the Debian video team is quite fond if it, if I recall00:49
GChrissmost of my recent work has been on and actual event streaming, but I'm hoping to get into openFrameworks00:50
mithrodo you know anything about Matterhorn?00:50
GChrissopenFrameworks = a way to interactively tag live video as it happens00:50
GChrissI know of it, yes00:50
mithroGChriss, I know it exists and that is about it00:51
GChrissI think I met the Matterhorn folks, actually00:51
GChrissjust after a Kaltura meetup00:51
mithrobtw the rtmpsink gstreamer plugin was created at my bequest :)00:51
GChrissoh neat00:52
mithrowe used it for streaming up to and youtube live events00:52
mithroI hope to test it with Amazon Cloud Front sometime too00:52
GChrissmy only issue with rtmpsink at the moment (or at least last I checked, about a year ago) is that Akamai-specific required elements were unimplemented00:53
GChrisswhich precluded Kaltura streaming00:53
GChrissI was a good ways toward building a Mac app for "just double-click the icon" desktop streaming via gstreamer + MacPorts: gstreamer itself worked but I had issues changing library paths on the plugins00:57
GChrissI sorta prefer software-based capture vs. dedicated hardware00:58
GChrisswhich is the Matterhorn approach00:59
mithrosorry I was in a meeting01:22
mithroI'm against interferring with a presenters laptop01:24
mithrowhich requires I have dedicated hardware01:24
mithrobut I'm trying to make that dedicated hardware as cheap and easy to get as possible01:25
mithro(and as much software as possible :)01:25
mithroIE I'm targetting HDMI2USB to be around $100-$150 USD for the consumer01:27
mithroGChriss, presenters have all types of weird requirements, but thanks to it needing to get onto a screen having a VGA output is very reliable01:29
GChrissyup!  i used a usb-powered VGA splitter --> one copy into a Kramer VP-501XL scan converter -> v4l2src capture01:32
GChrissbut software-based capture allows high-res streaming: 1~5 FPS at near-native resolutions01:32
mithroBTW Take a look at and tell me how it could be improved -
tpbTitle: Tim Videos - Getting Started! (at
mithroGChriss, The HDMI2USB does 5-10fps at native resolutions01:33
mithroGChriss, and I hope to get a student to add VGA extension board support01:33
GChrisshave you seen OpenHDCapture?01:35
GChrissit's kinda stalled, but interesting01:35
mithroIs that the camera?01:35
tpbTitle: OpenHDCapture - Open Circuits (at
GChrissi love this bot01:35
mithroGChriss, wow, that is identical to our project!01:36
mithrogreat minds think alike I guess01:36
mithroGChriss, even down to using similar chips!01:37
GChrissconvergent evolution01:37
* GChriss does development work with Elphel01:37
GChrissnothing too hardcore, though01:38
mithroElphel being the OpenHDCapture guy?01:38
mithroI'll be emailing him in a moment01:38
GChrissno, they're separate projects01:38
mithroWe actually have a peice of hardware you can buy and do capture with at the moment01:38
GChrissI might have his email address -- one sec01:38
GChrissso I've heard (per jeremyb)01:38
mithro@electronjunkie on twitter or email me at lm317t_AT_gmail_DOT_com, replace _DOT_ and _AT_ with "." and "@" to make it a valid email address.01:39
tpbTitle: Brian Phelps (electronjunkie) auf Twitter (at
mithroDo you know if he is a student?01:39
GChrissok, email address already public.  he's a dad in North Carolina, I believe01:40
mithroGChriss, if he was a student - We could get him to do stuff under GSoC :)01:40
GChrissi knoow01:40
mithrowell, I need to do work I get paid for01:48
mithroGChriss, if you find any capable students, send them our way!01:48
GChrisswill do.  GSoC itself does well in attracting interested students01:49
mithroGChriss, you should join the #hdmi2usb channel too02:50
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tvCommitBot[getting-started] timvideos-website pushed 2 new commits to master:
tvCommitBotgetting-started/master 8c7387b mithro: Updated Home (markdown)05:27
tvCommitBotgetting-started/master b48ecc5 Tim 'mithro' Ansell: Merge branch 'master' of
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diadarahello,can anyone help me get started with gst-switch(speaker track)  ?19:53
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hyadesI am interested in participating in GSOC 2013. I have good knowledge of gsteamer and its python bindings and also of django. I am interested in the projects : flumotion and streaming system. Whom should I contact for further info21:05
GChrisshyades: mithro is a good person to ask in general, but if you have specific questions we can take a crack at them21:09
GChrissor otherwise point you in the right direction21:09
hyadesit will be nice to get some info on the aim of these two projects.21:11
GChrissin a generalized sense, technology goals or questions specific to timtv and flumotion?21:16
tpbTitle: Tim Videos - Getting Started! (at
GChrissalso relevant, if a little dated:,_Networked_Cameras_for_Live-Streamed_Meetings21:21
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GChrissmost of the work there has been folded into
tpbTitle: GST cookbook - XiphWiki (at
hyadesi ll just go through these and get back in sometime ..ty21:24
GChrissalso take a look at NextDayVideo.com21:25
GChrissand you'll get a fair sense of the basis of these projects21:26
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hyadesSir i went through these links.21:53
hyadesIs there any place where I can see some working parts of the code to get idea of the current state of the project21:54
tpbTitle: timvideos (Tim Videos Conference Recording Systems) ยท GitHub (at
hyadesi meant any place where it is deployed22:00
hyades is this anywhere close?22:01
tpbTitle: Streaming for Great America (at
GChrissI'll defer to mithro--22:01
GChrissI have development ideas but most of my 'deployed' work are quick-setup, quick-teardown events using the gst cookbook pipelines22:02
GChrissI have screenshots and such of a live streaming systems22:03
GChrissand tons of video22:04
hyadesthose gst cookbook things are for theora streaming in elphel cameras. So currently also same thing is used?22:05
GChrissthere's streaming-system flumotion config files with various encoder options  (e.g., h264/WebM/Flash) for various output sources (e.g., 'rtmpsink' and streaming)22:10
GChrissand the gst cookbook has similar examples22:11
GChrissI'm looking through
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hyadesso the improvements into the streaming system will focus on what areas?22:14
GChrissas a GSoC applicant that's largely up to the proposal -- what are you most interested in?22:17
* GChriss just learned of timvideos yesterday22:18
GChrissI personally would be excited to see integration work with OpenFrameworks22:19
GChrissthink "interactive, live video metadata capture" -- click on a auto-identified face in the live stream you are broadcasting, type the name of the speaker in the mini pop-up box that appears, add a few keywords for that portion of the discussion, tab over (via touch-screen gestures) to the live viewership stats/server status, then tab over again and adjust the zoom/focus/color balance for the camera in front of you22:22
hyadesi have done a project this semester in college related to video streaming from remote cameras in a monitoring system. So I have can easily pick up whats going on. But it more depends on the problems that are currently being faced22:22
GChrissmy biggest bottleneck is post-event publication of video, so minimizing and otherwise automating editing and publication is a big deal for me22:24
GChrissI can travel/record/livestream events much faster than I can publish/archive video22:24
GChrissfor timvideos, development of capture tools seems to be a higher priority22:27
GChrissin addition to gst-switch and speakertrack22:27
GChrissFLOSS and open hardware are just sorta catching up with the rest of the streaming industry22:30
GChrisswith exciting innovation possibilities not previously tackled by industry22:31
GChriss(actually, some services are starting to charge for previously-free features like viewership count)22:32
hyadesso the user is able to view videos which are tagged in a cool interface and get lot of info about the video?22:33
GChrissyes, in addition to pre-populating the footage with appropriate metadata for later use (see
GChrisson the live-viewer side of things there's other potential development projects22:36
hyadesYes.And these videos u record are also stored by youtube servers i guess22:36
GChrissrelating to technical playback -- think integration of existing .js code to analyze playback performance, and also herdict integration22:37
GChrissbut also time-specific comments22:38
GChrissand popcorn.js!22:38
GChrissthat would be cool22:38
tpbTitle: Popcorn.js | The HTML5 Media Framework (at
GChrissalso Amara -- a high-priority for live/post-event transcripts22:42
tpbTitle: Amara - Caption, translate, subtitle and transcribe video. (at
GChrissre: youtube servers: I advocate for the Internet Archive22:46
hyadescool thing22:46
tpbTitle: Internet Archive Search: GChriss (at
GChrisswith Miro/BitTorrent22:48
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hyades_some connection issues22:53
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PhantomasHello, any resource on how to setup a streaming server with timvideos?22:55
GChrissPhantomas: do you need a simple test stream or the 'full package'?22:57
PhantomasThe full package, I guess :)22:58
* GChriss again defers to mithro--22:59
GChrissI can help with gstreamer; see
tpbTitle: GST cookbook - XiphWiki (at
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PhantomasGChriss: Do you happen to know what was the maximum (estimated) number of simultaneous viewers of pycon live stream?23:01
Phantomasand what hardware was the server running on23:01
PhantomasI want to stream a conference with around 200-300 simultaneous viewers, we've tested rtmp lite which is written in python but when we were streaming audio it couldn't stand 15 viewers on a 8core/8GB system23:05
GChrissI'm not sure about pycon (again, mithro-- is the person to ask), but I can share other working cases23:07
PhantomasI'm all ears :)23:07
GChrissmost recently, we were able to carry ~300 simultaneous at LibrePlanet w/ Ogg Theora bouncing off of Icecast23:08
GChrissCPU resource requirements are minimal, bandwith maxes out first23:08
GChrisstake a look at Icecast (WebM patches available) and rtmpd.com23:09
GChrissin addition to timvideos23:09
Phantomaswhat protocol does timvideos streaming-system use for streaming?23:10
PhantomasI'll take a look at icecast! Thanks23:11
Phantomasyou can use it together with timvideos? I thought timvideos was a standalone solution23:12
GChrisstimvideos uses flumotion (software), which in turn is powered by gstreamer23:17
GChrissit's possible to use an arbitrary gstreamer pipeline in flumotion (and by extension, timvideos)23:17
hyadesthe popcorn.js is only for firefox that too html5, So what do you plan for non-firefox platforms?23:24
GChrissfrom a demograph point of view viewers for most of these conferences largely use Firefox or Chrome, so ie (and Safari?) aren't major concerns23:34
GChrisspopcorn.js will take time to implement streaming-side; in that time there may be better browser support23:35
GChrisson the popcorn.js side23:35
hyadeshmm :)23:36
GChrissand if not there's always clippy23:37
tpbTitle: ClippyJS - Add Clippy or his friends to any website for instant nostalgia (at
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