Sunday, 2020-03-08

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clay_1Hello everyone !11:47
clay_1ZirconiumX gm:)12:19
clay_1how is it going ?12:19
ZirconiumXI've been a bit unwell recently, but I'm trying my best.12:20
clay_1I hope you get better, try staying in good spirits !12:21
clay_1have you had any progress in your altera project ?12:24
clay_1So, I am trying to run and I dont have much success12:53
clay_1I think its due to the fact that I dont know how to run files in the $XRAY_ way that sf-slack has showed me. Can anyone help with that ?12:54
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ZirconiumXclay_1: as a note, sf-slack is a bot13:05
ZirconiumXIt's a bridge between this IRC channel and the Symbiflow Slack13:06
clay_1ZirconiumX oops:P13:06
clay_1So people that actually work for symbiflow will answer through that ?13:07
ZirconiumXI think it's a matter of preference13:07
ZirconiumXPossibly, though.13:08
clay_1ok, thank you :)13:08
ZirconiumXAs for my Altera project - calling it "my" project when so much is being done by others feels wrong - we're making a fair amount of progress13:09
clay_1ok, my bad, thats great :)13:09
ZirconiumXIt's going to end up being a massive EULA violation, but oh well13:09
clay_1isnt that the case with prjxray as well ?13:10
ZirconiumXThat I don't know, as I haven't read the relevant EULA13:10
clay_1oh ok13:11
ZirconiumXBut Quartus has an option that dumps the internal databases into plain text13:11
clay_1thats convenient13:11
ZirconiumXFrom there it's a case of auto-generating the relevant structs13:11
clay_1have you thought about how to deal with the possible EULA violation13:13
ZirconiumXAt that point we then have to figure out what much of the data means13:13
ZirconiumXThe answer is "I don't know"13:13
clay_1hope it turns out to be fine13:14
ZirconiumXIcestorm and Trellis survive because apparently Lattice don't really care13:15
ZirconiumXBut Xilinx and Altera very much do care13:15
clay_1and thats reasonable i think since they are the major players13:16
tpbTitle: Altera sues Clear Logic over IP | EE Times (at
ZirconiumX... Hmm, wonder what the command is for tpb13:19
ZirconiumXtpb: version13:19
tpbZirconiumX: The current (running) version of this Supybot is  The newest version available online is
clay_1that looked bad13:20
ZirconiumX... That should get upgraded13:20
clay_1tpb ?13:21
ZirconiumXI'm presuming this bot is mithro's, in which case I recommend it gets updated to use Limnoria instead13:21
clay_1I have no  clue about that13:22
ZirconiumXWell anyway13:23
ZirconiumXI haven't got any direct legal advice, but the question boils down to how much of the raw data is copyrightable.13:24
ZirconiumXFor example, you cannot claim copyright over a file that documents a chess game13:25
ZirconiumXBut you *can* claim copyright over comments you add to it.13:25
ZirconiumXBecause the game itself is raw data13:25
ZirconiumXBut the comments are not.13:26
ZirconiumXSo then, are natural characteristics of chips copyrightable?13:29
clay_1too much politics involved in that I guess13:31
clay_1they probably have whole teams of people working on how to exploit all that13:32
ZirconiumXWhy can't we just hack in peace?13:32
clay_1well I believe that this should be the case13:32
clay_1I mean there is transparency here13:33
ZirconiumXUnofficially I believe Lattice are permitting icestorm/x-ray, as they can make more money by people buying chips for an open toolchain than they lose by fewer people buying Diamond13:34
clay_1it makes sense13:35
clay_1but I doudt thats the case with altera/xilinx13:35
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