Tuesday, 2013-05-21

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skayhey peoples, I added two speakers in pyvideo to a python video.02:20
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skay_CarlFK iiie mithro: so the question I have, as prompted by me adding metadata to something on pyvideo to help Asheesh have accurate info for an upcoming OpenHatch blog post about python (I'm highly motivated to help OpenHatch) is — when should you all care about data consistency between the customer and your systems.14:39
skay_and I've chatted some in person with CarlFK about this, and debate with him on how long he should ask the customers to maintain the integrety/accuracy of their data versus considering it stale and useless14:40
skay_so it is something I wish you folks would debate technical merits of14:40
skay_my point of view as a bystander is that the conferences have little motivation to keep data accurate at some point during the conference or slightly after14:41
skay_and my point is, should they?14:41
skay_I don't necessarily think so14:41
skay_you probably should work out this idea explictely with them so that you know what to expect. they don't realize you are making assumptions about how long their data should be maintained14:42
CarlFKhttps://us.pycon.org/2013/schedule/presentation/50/  I think as long as that page is public, it should be maintained14:42
tpb<http://ln-s.net/--pn> (at us.pycon.org)14:42
skay_they don't maintain a record of what happened. someone might have canceled a talk, and they don't update the online schedule, necessarily14:43
skay_people give impromptu talks, and they don't update the online schedule14:43
CarlFKIf Jessica sees a problem with it, I think it is reasonable for her to expect them to fix it14:44
skay_authors aren't necessarily going to care about it the same way you do. so you will see problems that don't exist and aren't worth their time from their point of view14:45
skay_conf organizers, likewise14:45
skay_conf attendees, likewise14:45
skay_related topic14:45
CarlFKdebate with him on *how long*14:45
skay_you need to work out cleanliness of the process of syncing veyepar data with conf data14:46
skay_with richard data14:46
CarlFKhow long = as long as that page is public14:46
skay_then you are debating what is important about what is public14:47
skay_and debating how accurate something has to be14:47
skay_you delete email instead of archiving. that is not "accurate"14:47
skay_it is not an accurate record of a conversation14:47
skay_(from my point of view)14:48
skay_from your point of view it is14:48
skay_well, from your point of view you think it is, but in reality, I can point to use cases where it isn't. like when you ask me to find the conversation in my email archive14:48
skay_not to get derailed on that14:49
skay_technical challenge — decide how to merge data14:49
skay_social/technical — work out the lifespan of all the data14:49
skay_at some point I think you should stop paying attention to their record14:49
skay_would you please discuss this with people who care about and use veyepar?14:50
skay_and who care about and run shows with you?14:50
CarlFKthat would be no one ;/14:54
CarlFKbut going back to how long.. I think the maintainers are in favor of maintaining it forever14:58
CarlFKI don't think any of them will ever say they no longer care14:58
skay_saying versus doing something to maintain the data is another thing entirely15:00
skay_they can claim to care all they want but if the behavior doesn't line up then — shrug15:00
skay_go crazy and see http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/ndsa/activities/levels.html for people who want to preserve data15:01
tpb<http://ln-s.net/--qB> (at www.digitalpreservation.gov)15:01
skay_so you can go from extreme15:01
skay_data can be transient, some poeple will argue about what should be preserved ( http://blogs.loc.gov/digitalpreservation/2012/12/call-to-action-to-preserve-science-discourse-on-the-open-web/ )15:03
tpb<http://ln-s.net/--qD> (at blogs.loc.gov)15:03
skay_like me and email because I think the anthropology could be interesting15:04
skay_but on the other hand you have the concept of lifespan of something about data. like, data encryption and security. sometimes you don't forever protection, only protection for a set of time15:04
skay_so I don't know when you want to have data from a conference to be frozen versus living15:04
CarlFKI want it accurate always.  I think the maintainers do too.   They are just lazy or something15:05
mithrofor all LCA / PyCon AU conferences the schedule effectively becomes a static webpage with no API the moment the conference is over16:07
mithroanyway I should have been in bed earlier16:08
CarlFKmithro: if a presenter asked to have something updated, like "..16:08
CarlFKk - more on this later - sleep well16:09
mithroCarlFK, we have never had the case of someone doing so - and I've yet to find anyone who cares16:09
mithroonce the conference is over, nobody cares about the website16:09
mithroexcept as archival material16:09
CarlFKboth lca and pycon have similar attitudes - I am guessing if someone pointed out "the site says 2 presenters, but only the first one showed up, please fix"  it would gt fixed16:12
skay_CarlFK: I've had one example of that happening for what shows up on pyvideo.org, not what shows up on the pycon site16:15
skay_CarlFK: I've had a few other examples where people enjoy having links to slides on pyvideo.org. I've added them from time to time16:16
skay_back to work for me16:16
* skay_ is back to lurking16:17
CarlFKexample of that - what is that?16:19
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