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| jasvir | madrazr: hi. | 03:21 |
|---|---|---|
| jasvir | madrazr: why we are not updating our text editor at melange? | 03:22 |
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| madrazr | jasvir: that is a quick curious question? Or do you plan to have a discussion around that? | 03:24 |
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| madrazr | for latter you will have to wait | 03:25 |
| madrazr | I am choking right now due to time crunch :P | 03:25 |
| madrazr | on a Friday evening at 8:25PM | 03:25 |
| madrazr | ask me more about it | 03:25 |
| madrazr | :P | 03:25 |
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| jasvir | madrazr: Ok :) | 03:34 |
| madrazr | jasvir: what is your question though? | 03:35 |
| jasvir | madrazr: 8:25PM in us? | 03:35 |
| madrazr | jasvir: what do you mean by why are we not updating the text editor for Melange? | 03:36 |
| madrazr | which text editor? | 03:36 |
| madrazr | jasvir: proposal form you mean? | 03:36 |
| madrazr | tinyMCE? | 03:36 |
| jasvir | madrazr: Actually, personally I feel lots of problems while submitting my proposal. | 03:36 |
| jasvir | madrazr: yes | 03:37 |
| madrazr | jasvir: such as? | 03:37 |
| jasvir | madrazr: It ruined all indentations,. | 03:37 |
| jasvir | madrazr: Many times, I go for editing HTML source editing. | 03:37 |
| madrazr | jasvir: what better suggestions do you have? | 03:37 |
| Niharika | I would like to add a point. Please make the editor larger in size. It´s hard to edit the proposal. | 03:38 |
| jasvir | madrazr: It's not only me. Almost, all my friends have faced same problems. | 03:38 |
| jasvir | Niharika: +1 | 03:38 |
| madrazr | Niharika: please file an issue | 03:38 |
| Niharika | On it. | 03:38 |
| madrazr | jasvir: I do not deny that this text editor is crappy | 03:39 |
| jasvir | madrazr: See this: http://www.thousandparsec.net/~irc/%23melange/%23melange.2014-03-21.log.html#t2014-03-21T21:15:59 | 03:39 |
| tpb | Title: Friday, 2014-03-21 (at www.thousandparsec.net) | 03:39 |
| madrazr | jasvir: but do you have a suggestion for a better one? | 03:39 |
| jasvir | madrazr: This was also happened with me. | 03:39 |
| jasvir | madrazr: Currently, I say no. | 03:40 |
| jasvir | madrazr: But I can. | 03:40 |
| madrazr | jasvir: then you have your answer for your question "madrazr: why we are not updating our text editor at melange?" | 03:41 |
| madrazr | there are a bunch of options that I have looked at | 03:41 |
| jasvir | madrazr: like? | 03:41 |
| madrazr | with each of them we are going to lose some functionality or the other | 03:41 |
| madrazr | so the question is, whom are we going to disappoint more | 03:41 |
| madrazr | or the inertia of leaving things around as is | 03:41 |
| madrazr | jasvir: http://ckeditor.com/ | 03:42 |
| madrazr | one option | 03:42 |
| tpb | Title: CKEditor.com | The best web text editor for everyone (at ckeditor.com) | 03:42 |
| madrazr | jasvir: http://toopay.github.io/bootstrap-markdown/ | 03:42 |
| tpb | Title: Bootstrap Markdown (at toopay.github.io) | 03:42 |
| madrazr | another option | 03:42 |
| jasvir | madrazr: ok | 03:44 |
| jasvir | madrazr: so you mean, there is no option? Either we use this or some other with lack of functionality. | 03:45 |
| madrazr | jasvir: there is | 03:46 |
| madrazr | jasvir: some one needs to make a strong point to make a move | 03:46 |
| madrazr | jasvir: and take the engineering efforts involved | 03:47 |
| madrazr | jasvir: we are not making a move because, nobody feels strongly about what features are worth losing | 03:47 |
| madrazr | and there is no clear estimate of the time required to do it | 03:47 |
| madrazr | jasvir: if you want to jump into that | 03:48 |
| madrazr | take the responsibility | 03:48 |
| madrazr | feel free to | 03:48 |
| madrazr | btw | 03:48 |
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| madrazr | even before that | 03:48 |
| madrazr | in all fairness to tinyMCE | 03:48 |
| madrazr | it has made a lot of progress since we updated it in 2012 | 03:48 |
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| jasvir | madrazr: I think this task take much more time thn GSoC. So have to do it in off season | 03:49 |
| madrazr | jasvir: 2 years is quite a long time to not have updated | 03:49 |
| jasvir | madrazr: I'll definately take responisbility. | 03:49 |
| madrazr | it is time to do that I think first | 03:49 |
| madrazr | jasvir: probably | 03:49 |
| madrazr | there is no clear estimate | 03:49 |
| madrazr | that's the problem | 03:49 |
| madrazr | may be it will take only a day | 03:50 |
| jasvir | madrazr: If we make a team, than it could be easy. | 03:50 |
| madrazr | may be it will take a month | 03:50 |
| madrazr | may be a year | 03:50 |
| jasvir | madrazr: So, first of all. A report is to be made. | 03:50 |
| jasvir | madrazr: I'll do it. | 03:51 |
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| jasvir | madrazr: I will be free after 28. After that I'll start making a report listing all problems faced by me, my friends and other reachables. | 03:52 |
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| jasvir | madrazr: And work on it in offseason. | 03:54 |
| jasvir | madrazr: Why melange not participates in GCI? | 03:55 |
| madrazr | jasvir: we do not have the mentoring-capacity/effort GCI requires | 04:07 |
| madrazr | jasvir: it is somewhat unfortunate that we have a meta problem | 04:08 |
| madrazr | jasvir: it is exactly when these programs run that we also need a lot more time for engineering efforts | 04:08 |
| jasvir | madrazr: If one can have capacity to mentor in GSoC, thn why not GCI? | 04:08 |
| jasvir | madrazr: Oh | 04:08 |
| madrazr | jasvir: GSoC we manage because by the time the actual coding starts | 04:08 |
| madrazr | most of the engineering work would be done, more or less | 04:09 |
| jasvir | madrazr: What capacity you are expecting? | 04:09 |
| madrazr | jasvir: mentoring capacity | 04:09 |
| jasvir | madrazr: I wish to be a mentor. What can I do for that? | 04:10 |
| madrazr | jasvir: contribute :) | 04:10 |
| madrazr | jasvir: become a core contributor so that other developers can trust you enough to mentor others | 04:10 |
| madrazr | jasvir: it is all about building rapport | 04:11 |
| jasvir | madrazr: ok. | 04:11 |
| jasvir | madrazr: I'll try my best. | 04:11 |
| jasvir | madrazr: eagerly waiting for comment on my proposal :) | 04:14 |
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| madrazr | alright I am going home | 04:54 |
| madrazr | this is a never ending thing | 04:54 |
| madrazr | need to get some rest | 04:54 |
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| anth_x | anyone know how i, as an org admin, can view the 2013 proposals to my org? | 15:02 |
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| anth_x | oh, never mind; i just had to change the "status" filter on the 2013 page. | 15:12 |
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| vivekjain | madrazr: Hi | 19:52 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: ping | 20:21 |
| madrazr | ashishk: pong | 20:21 |
| ashishk | madrazr: regarding issue 2138 ,can you explain me what are the requirements of the issue?? | 20:24 |
| madrazr | ashishk: ignore and withdraw should be gate one another | 20:27 |
| madrazr | when the proposal is withdrawn there should be no way to ignore | 20:27 |
| madrazr | and when the proposal is ignored it need not be withdrawn | 20:27 |
| madrazr | *it shouldn't be allowed to be withdrawn | 20:27 |
| ashishk | madrazr: i have done that but daniel commented that it was just an example and issue is more complicated than that | 20:28 |
| ashishk | madrazr: i did not understand what else need to be done ?? | 20:28 |
| madrazr | ashishk: btw I don't think we should wait for Daniel's ideal solution | 20:32 |
| madrazr | ashishk: what Daniel means is, this needs to be generalized for other actions | 20:33 |
| madrazr | for example, your patch takes care of only the case when the proposal is withdrawn | 20:33 |
| madrazr | ashishk: what if the proposal is ignored? | 20:33 |
| madrazr | ashishk: will the student still be able to withdraw the proposal? | 20:34 |
| madrazr | ashishk: and after withdrawing the proposal, the proposal's state changes to "withdrawn" | 20:34 |
| madrazr | ashishk: and if he/she un-withdraws the proposal, the proposal goes back to the "submitted" state | 20:34 |
| madrazr | instead of previous "ignored" state | 20:35 |
| madrazr | ashishk: the mentors would have done so much work to determine whether the proposal should be ignored or not | 20:35 |
| madrazr | by example, reading the proposal etc. | 20:35 |
| madrazr | all that will be undone now | 20:35 |
| madrazr | so Daniel means we need a better solution to handle all such state dependencies | 20:35 |
| madrazr | than just slapping in an if-condition there | 20:36 |
| madrazr | just for the withdrawn status | 20:36 |
| madrazr | we need to build a state machine there | 20:36 |
| madrazr | not a very sophisticated one | 20:36 |
| madrazr | but still it needs one | 20:36 |
| ashishk | madrazr: yeah,got it :) | 20:37 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: can you explain me the state machine part ?? | 20:41 |
| madrazr | ashishk: what explanation do you want? | 20:41 |
| madrazr | I just explained it now? | 20:41 |
| madrazr | the whole explanation was about the state machines | 20:41 |
| olly | madrazr: hmm, if the student has withdrawn their proposal, why shouldn't the org be able to ignore it? | 20:42 |
| olly | if they've looked at it, it's nice to be able to record that | 20:42 |
| madrazr | olly: why do the work? | 20:42 |
| olly | since the student can unwithdraw | 20:42 |
| ashishk | madrazr: If if-condition is not relevant here than how are we going to implement it ?? | 20:43 |
| madrazr | olly: if the student has already withdrawn, the student knows that he/she does not want that to be considered for review at all | 20:43 |
| madrazr | olly: that's the problem | 20:43 |
| olly | students hit withdraw by accident quite frequently it seems | 20:43 |
| * gevaerts also doesn't really see how ignored and withdrawn are related apart from having similar effects | 20:43 | |
| madrazr | olly: if student unwithdraws, we are screwed anyway | 20:43 |
| olly | perhaps i need to read the ticket | 20:43 |
| olly | will do so later as i need to go out quite soon | 20:44 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: they indeed have similar effects | 20:44 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: the difference is in who performs the action | 20:45 |
| gevaerts | Yes, exactly | 20:45 |
| gevaerts | As long as they're reversible, you can get interesting situations if you treat them as one flag | 20:45 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: correct, treating them as one flag is one of the problems there | 20:46 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: which is why I think we need a better solution than putting an if-condition to what buttons to render is not enough | 20:46 |
| madrazr | correction | 20:47 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: which is why I think we need a better solution than putting an if-condition to what buttons to render | 20:47 |
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| * gevaerts nods | 20:47 | |
| madrazr | ashishk: read the discussion just now | 20:47 |
| madrazr | ashishk: that holds a part of the answer | 20:47 |
| madrazr | ashishk: and that does not mean that we don't want ifs at all :P | 20:48 |
| madrazr | OMG, only if there was such a language ;-) | 20:48 |
| madrazr | ashishk: we will need conditional flow to decide what buttons to render based on various states possible | 20:48 |
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| gevaerts | madrazr: you can write if-less code in several languages if you really want to :) | 20:49 |
| madrazr | ashishk: but putting only one if just for the withdrawn status is not the solution though | 20:49 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: sure | 20:49 |
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| madrazr | Ok, I scared the student away I think? :P | 20:49 |
| gevaerts | In this sort of case I think I might consider a table-based approach | 20:49 |
| gevaerts | Although I haven't thought about it a lot :) | 20:50 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: table-based approach is an interesting idea | 20:50 |
| madrazr | I need to chew on it a bit | 20:50 |
| * gevaerts hopes more than the button is disabled, and that the server will also reject these actions if people do funny stuff :) | 20:50 | |
| madrazr | historically, in Melange, we have done all out state-machines using if-elif-else | 20:50 |
| madrazr | yeah exactly | 20:51 |
| madrazr | Oh, I disable the button | 20:51 |
| madrazr | but I totally let HTTP POST to make these calls | 20:51 |
| madrazr | and I will just do what POST call says is not going to help | 20:51 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: in fact this was one of the problems during first GCI | 20:51 |
| madrazr | :P | 20:51 |
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| madrazr | gevaerts: because GCI Tasks are a big state machine | 20:52 |
| gevaerts | Sounds like you're having fun :) | 20:52 |
| madrazr | yeah :D | 20:52 |
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| gevaerts | The thing with chains of if/else is that it's easy to lose track of what's going on | 20:53 |
| madrazr | yeah, agreed | 20:53 |
| codethy | Hi! Can I ask a question about contributions? | 20:53 |
| madrazr | codethy: "don't ask to ask, just ask" is one of the taglines of this channel and #gsoc's :) | 20:54 |
| codethy | sorry! I finished a patch but when I checked back on the thread a couple else had already submitted fixes. Is it okay to still contribute mine? | 20:55 |
| madrazr | codethy: that's a tricky question to answer | 20:56 |
| madrazr | codethy: I don't want your work to go waste | 20:56 |
| madrazr | codethy: but also on the other hand, I don't want you to spend more time on something that is likely not going to be accepted | 20:56 |
| madrazr | codethy: because somebody has already done the work before and it is likely correct | 20:56 |
| madrazr | codethy: with some minor cleanups needed | 20:57 |
| madrazr | I will leave this decision to your judgement | 20:57 |
| codethy | oh i wouldn't be spending more time on it since i've finished. i was just wondering whether it would be okay to still submit this since gsoc recommends you make a contribution so you guys can see some of my code :P | 20:57 |
| madrazr | codethy: indeed, we need to see some patches | 20:58 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: sorry,got disconnected | 21:04 |
| madrazr | ashishk: np | 21:04 |
| ashishk | madrazr: I was reading the logs I saw your point that we need to decide conditional flow first :) | 21:13 |
| ashishk | madrazr: so we can build a separate class which will take state of proposal as input and return if corresponding button should be shown or not | 21:14 |
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| vivekjain | madrazr:Hi | 21:18 |
| vivekjain | madrazr: Regarding issue 2131 https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=2131, should the flow be like if the mentor submits the rating without any star then rating will be 0. | 21:20 |
| madrazr | ashishk: function | 21:21 |
| madrazr | ashishk: we are trying to move away from classes as much as possible, unless it is the right solution for the task | 21:22 |
| ashishk | madrazr: yes,function would be a good choice :) | 21:22 |
| madrazr | vivekjain: how can you make the mentor submit the rating without any star? | 21:23 |
| madrazr | at least with the current star widget? | 21:23 |
| vivekjain | madrazr: yeah so we need to add the submit button for the rating also? or should we add another star depicting the zero star | 21:24 |
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| madrazr | grrr... | 21:26 |
| madrazr | vivekjain: don't make the UI that horrible please! | 21:26 |
| madrazr | please? | 21:26 |
| madrazr | vivekjain: star with a submit button, people are going to ask who builds such UIs in 2014 | 21:26 |
| gevaerts | Don't forget to add a confirmation dialog! | 21:27 |
| vivekjain | madrazr:adding the button will be horrible.I think special star should be better. Because with current UI there are not much possibilities. | 21:28 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: Oh yeah, totally! Like the one that pops up in the user's face and just says "Press any to continue and any other other key to exit" | 21:29 |
| madrazr | :P | 21:29 |
| madrazr | *oops | 21:29 |
| madrazr | "... or any other key to exit" | 21:29 |
| madrazr | vivekjain: I would love to see the mockup | 21:30 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: "click 'cancel' to override this warning and continue" | 21:30 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: that is less dramatic :P | 21:30 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: only if one of the buttons actually says "cancel"! | 21:31 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: lol | 21:31 |
| gevaerts | You'd of course have a "Yes" and a "No" button with that text | 21:31 |
| madrazr | :D | 21:32 |
| madrazr | someone should run a social experiment with that :P | 21:32 |
| gevaerts | Maybe a website with a few thousand student users? | 21:33 |
| gevaerts | Hmmmm | 21:33 |
| * gevaerts vaguely remembers some parts of melange in the old days... | 21:34 | |
| gevaerts | madrazr: are you sure such an experiment has not been done yet? :) | 21:34 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: ha ha, I know nothing | 21:34 |
| madrazr | I am innocent | 21:34 |
| madrazr | :P | 21:35 |
| madrazr | ;-) | 21:35 |
| vivekjain | madrazr: Thanks I will build a prototype of extra star method. | 21:35 |
| gevaerts | madrazr: Maybe it's a properly done double-blind experiment, in which case you wouldn't be expected to know :) | 21:35 |
| madrazr | vivekjain: sure, be willing to take some critical review | 21:35 |
| madrazr | gevaerts: probably that, yes! | 21:36 |
| vivekjain | madrazr: Ok. | 21:38 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: We can also have two variables for state | 21:48 |
| ashishk | madrazr: one for student and one for mentor | 21:48 |
| ashishk | madrazr: state_stu and state_org | 21:48 |
| ashishk | and correspondingly we can decide the state as follows: | 21:49 |
| ashishk | as student will have only option to change the status stated as withdraw or not | 21:49 |
| ashishk | so state will be given by a function as follows: | 21:49 |
| ashishk | 1. withdraw && ignore -> withdraw | 21:49 |
| ashishk | 2. withdraw && not ignore -> withdraw | 21:50 |
| ashishk | 3. not withdraw && ignore -> ignore | 21:50 |
| ashishk | 4. not withdraw && not ignore -> status doesn't change | 21:50 |
| ashishk | madrazr: I think all the possibliity are covered here | 21:50 |
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| madrazr | ashishk: what happens when the proposal is marked as accepted by the org | 21:56 |
| madrazr | rather soon to be accepted | 21:57 |
| madrazr | ashishk: student withdraws | 21:57 |
| madrazr | as in accidentally clicks on the withdraw button | 21:57 |
| madrazr | and then realizes the mistake and un-withdraws? | 21:57 |
| madrazr | ashishk: this is what Daniel is referring to as the need for a generic solution | 21:58 |
| madrazr | the problem is not with just two states | 21:58 |
| madrazr | we need to have a generic solution | 21:58 |
| madrazr | first of all I would love to see a state diagram | 21:58 |
| madrazr | explaining what state transitions are possible from which state | 21:58 |
| madrazr | ashishk: like for example | 21:59 |
| madrazr | https://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/GHOPImplementationDesign#Visualizing_the_states_of_a_Task | 21:59 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/BShq> (at code.google.com) | 22:00 |
| madrazr | OMG! It has been 5 years since I wrote that | 22:00 |
| madrazr | still feels like recent | 22:00 |
| madrazr | Time flies! | 22:00 |
| ashishk | madrazr: yes,I will draw a state diagram asap | 22:01 |
| ashishk | madrazr: I am on it | 22:01 |
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| madrazr | ashishk: cool! | 22:15 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: you there ?? | 22:45 |
| ashishk | madrazr: please have a look at it,I have made a simple state diagram https://www.lucidchart.com/documents/edit/43a47198-532e-0883-92ae-521b0a009107 | 22:49 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/BSl:> (at www.lucidchart.com) | 22:50 |
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| ashishk | madrazr: Here,i have added an extra state temporary which will allow the student to change back to it's previous state | 22:50 |
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| madrazr | ashishk: what is temporary? | 22:57 |
| madrazr | why is it different from "Ignore" and "Withdraw"? | 22:57 |
| ashishk | madrazr: It is an extra state which will allow user to go to previous state if he/she withdraws it by mistake | 22:58 |
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| ashishk | madrazr:If a student withdraws a proposal which was accepted by an org then what will be the status of the proposal | 23:14 |
| ashishk | madrazr: will it be withdrawn or accepted ?? | 23:14 |
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| madrazr | ashishk: there are multiple ways in which we can do this | 23:30 |
| madrazr | ashishk: we can keep a boolean flag somewhere which says this was already accepted | 23:31 |
| madrazr | ashishk: and then change the status to withdrawn | 23:31 |
| madrazr | or the other way round of keeping boolean for with withdrawn and leave the status as accepted | 23:31 |
| madrazr | ashishk: but in any case | 23:32 |
| madrazr | just thinking about the design without thinking about the code | 23:32 |
| madrazr | such a state should be represented as "accepted-withdrawn" | 23:32 |
| ashishk | madrazr: yes,you are right It should be called as accepted-withdrawn | 23:33 |
| ashishk | madrazr: suppose an org admin had ignored a proposal then I think whether student withdraw or un-withdraw the proposal it should not affect the current ignore status right | 23:36 |
| ashishk | madrazr: ?? | 23:36 |
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