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| Dark_Shikari | Any admins on? We have a student with a few tasks left to submit, but our org admin is asleep and probably won't be awake until after the deadline, so he can't approve more tasks. | 03:44 |
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| aviraldg | Hi. | 03:45 |
| aviraldg | Can submitted tasks be reviewed after the deadline in Melange? | 03:45 |
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| aviraldg | anyone there? | 06:04 |
| Dark_Shikari | Doesn't seem so. | 06:05 |
| aviraldg | haha :) | 06:05 |
| aviraldg | anyway, I have a question | 06:05 |
| aviraldg | can tasks be reviewed/closed after the deadline (2 hours from now?)? | 06:06 |
| aviraldg | Dark_Shikari: ? | 06:07 |
| Dark_Shikari | Why would I know? | 06:07 |
| Dark_Shikari | I'm just a mentor looking for help here. | 06:07 |
| aviraldg | oh | 06:07 |
| Dark_Shikari | As I said, there doesn't seem to be anyone here. | 06:07 |
| aviraldg | okay | 06:07 |
| aviraldg | thats wierd | 06:08 |
| aviraldg | you'd expect more people to be around | 06:08 |
| aviraldg | since the contest is about to end | 06:09 |
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| aviraldg | SRabbelier: there? | 07:35 |
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| dreimark | hmm, how do we accept a task when the student in panic missed to send something for review, but only added comments? | 08:03 |
| dreimark | aviraldg: it is only pencils down for students | 08:04 |
| aviraldg | shouldn't Melange be "locked" right now? | 08:05 |
| aviraldg | dreimark: but I can still claim tasks and submit work | 08:05 |
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| dreimark | good to know | 08:05 |
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| aviraldg | dreimark: I can still submit tasks | 08:10 |
| dreimark | aviraldg: hopefully the student i sent comments understands that too and did it | 08:11 |
| aviraldg | which student? | 08:11 |
| aviraldg | dreimark: ? | 08:12 |
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| dreimark | aviraldg: the student which sends much comments to us but missed to send something to review | 08:32 |
| aviraldg | dreimark: um... name? | 08:32 |
| dreimark | dude108 | 08:32 |
| aviraldg | hmm | 08:32 |
| aviraldg | he still can | 08:32 |
| aviraldg | I for one can submit tasks right now | 08:33 |
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| ThomasWaldmann | how can i see work submissions done in the past 10h? | 09:35 |
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| dukeleto | is GCI over or not? | 18:16 |
| dukeleto | students are still submitting tasks. Seems unfair. | 18:16 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: AFAIK, the program is over | 18:22 |
| madrazr | I am seeing if there is a bug with the timeline | 18:22 |
| dukeleto | madrazr: students are telling me that students are still getting points | 18:22 |
| dukeleto | madrazr: the top 10 just changed and I think students are going to start getting pitchforks and torches | 18:22 |
| dukeleto | madrazr: make sure to lock your doors | 18:23 |
| westi|tybee | dukeleto: "students are going to start getting pitchforks and torches" - they've had those for a while | 18:23 |
| dukeleto | westi|tybee: yes, but now they have something to fight over :) | 18:25 |
| westi|tybee | yeah rather than fighting with the mentors for not responding in seconds ;-) | 18:25 |
| madrazr | 2 mins brb | 18:27 |
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| dukeleto | madrazr, westi|tybee : http://socghop.appspot.com/gci/student_ranking/show_details/google/gci2010/aoihana | 18:31 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/8Lyu> (at socghop.appspot.com) | 18:32 |
| dukeleto | that page lists tasks that are completed in *the future* as well as after the contest deadline | 18:32 |
| dukeleto | blarg. not in the future. But still past the deadline | 18:32 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: don't worry, we will make sure those tasks are not counted | 18:33 |
| dukeleto | madrazr: thanks. Some students in the top 10 are worrying that they will be bumped out of the top 10 | 18:34 |
| dukeleto | madrazr++ | 18:34 |
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| dukeleto | cotto_work: howdy | 18:36 |
| cotto_work | hi dukeleto | 18:36 |
| * dukeleto and cotto_work would like to thank all the Melange devs for being awesome | 18:36 | |
| dukeleto | SRabbelier: even you ;) | 18:36 |
| cotto_work | very much | 18:36 |
| SRabbelier | dukeleto: you're too kind ;) | 18:37 |
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| cotto_work | Melange has its oddities and annoyances, but you all are doing a great job of improving it. Thanks for the continuing work. | 18:40 |
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| ``foobar | hi | 18:40 |
| ``foobar | i'm asking if the tasks that are open can still be completed? | 18:41 |
| ``foobar | well actually i know they can be completed because some students did complete some tasks about 2-3 hours ago from what o researched | 18:42 |
| ``foobar | so are the tasks and points eligible? | 18:42 |
| ``foobar | or every task i complete now will be removed? | 18:43 |
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| jacktheripper | tasks beyond the deadline won't be counted as said sometime ago (you weren't there) | 19:19 |
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| `foobar | the deadline was around 12 hours ago right? | 19:34 |
| `foobar | because the timeline was confusing | 19:34 |
| fbrito | `foobar: 8am UTChttp://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2010/timeline | 19:35 |
| `foobar | UTC,GMT | 19:35 |
| tpb | Title: Timeline (at www.google-melange.com) | 19:35 |
| `foobar | some people thought that UTC is in the middle of US | 19:35 |
| fbrito | `foobar: it is 19:35 at UTC | 19:35 |
| fbrito | (at this right moment) | 19:35 |
| `foobar | yes | 19:35 |
| `foobar | so | 19:36 |
| `foobar | UTC=GMT | 19:36 |
| `foobar | a lot of students didn't know that | 19:36 |
| fbrito | that's why they also mentioned Pacific Time :D | 19:36 |
| `foobar | that was even more confusing | 19:39 |
| `foobar | 12 A.M. | 19:39 |
| `foobar | we didn't know if that meant 00:00 or 12:00 in 24h format | 19:39 |
| fbrito | yes, indeed | 19:40 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: YW | 19:42 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: thanks for the encouragement, at the end of the day that is all is what is required to keep improving stuff | 19:43 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: thanks to all of you to bearing with us and understanding the limitations. We will definitely do better next time | 19:43 |
| madrazr | cotto_work: to you too ^ | 19:44 |
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| dukeleto | madrazr: thanks for your hard work | 19:51 |
| madrazr | dukeleto: NP :) | 19:51 |
| iulian777 | heyo,has anyone experienced something like not beeing able to see his ,,Student profile" in the sidebar? Like it disappeared or so? | 19:53 |
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| ArthurLiu | something about the program being "closed"? | 20:13 |
| iulian777 | if the program is closed the Student profile won't appear in the sidebar anymore? for ex:"Edit my Student Profile" link. | 20:22 |
| iulian777 | this is my concern | 20:22 |
| `foobar | it doesn't appear anymore to me either | 20:24 |
| ThomasWaldmann | btw, the student name/nick would be nice to have in those tables | 20:24 |
| `foobar | :-?? | 20:24 |
| ThomasWaldmann | if you have 20 translation tasks, it is a bit hard to find the right one (they all had same title) | 20:25 |
| `foobar | hmm | 20:27 |
| `foobar | so we can't edit our profiles | 20:27 |
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| Dark_Shikari | yeah we had a student unable to submit his last ~10 tasks | 20:33 |
| Dark_Shikari | he still would have lost by about 4-6 points though | 20:33 |
| ThomasWaldmann | huh, a single student? | 20:37 |
| Dark_Shikari | yes, the guy who's ranked 2nd =p | 20:37 |
| ThomasWaldmann | how can a student have so many tasks pending if he is only allowed to claim one at a time? | 20:38 |
| Dark_Shikari | That's just a melange feature. | 20:38 |
| Dark_Shikari | If a task is "fix a bug", you can fix 10 bugs if you want. | 20:38 |
| Dark_Shikari | Obviously nothing will stop a student from doing so, and it's not reasonable to try to cripple their work. | 20:39 |
| ThomasWaldmann | but still 1 task | 20:39 |
| Dark_Shikari | Fixing 10 bugs is going to be 10 tasks. | 20:39 |
| Dark_Shikari | If each task is "fix a bug". | 20:39 |
| Dark_Shikari | Similarly, if "translate a file" is a task, "translate 10 files" is 10 tasks. | 20:39 |
| ThomasWaldmann | aha, interesting | 20:39 |
| ThomasWaldmann | is that documented somewhere? | 20:39 |
| Dark_Shikari | No, it's just how we did it, but it seems to make logical sense to us! | 20:39 |
| Dark_Shikari | Other orgs did similar. | 20:39 |
| ThomasWaldmann | maybe make a task "work for us" :) | 20:40 |
| Dark_Shikari | lol | 20:40 |
| Dark_Shikari | ha ha | 20:40 |
| ThomasWaldmann | we also had kind of generic tasks like "do a translation" or "fix a bug", but it was determined before claimaccept what it exactly will be about | 20:41 |
| Dark_Shikari | we did the same sort of determination in some cases | 20:41 |
| ThomasWaldmann | plus putting it into right difficulty subclass | 20:41 |
| Dark_Shikari | for example, we had a "write an asm function" task, but some were really easy and others were hard | 20:41 |
| Dark_Shikari | so I ended up counting each function as part of a task | 20:42 |
| Dark_Shikari | e.g. 0.5 or 0.33 of a task | 20:42 |
| Dark_Shikari | this was done off-melange though. | 20:42 |
| Dark_Shikari | So when they'd submit, they'd link one, two, or even three patches for one task. | 20:42 |
| ThomasWaldmann | that's fine i think. | 20:43 |
| ThomasWaldmann | but doing multiple tasks with 1 claim is at least questionable | 20:43 |
| Dark_Shikari | well, part of the problem is pipelining | 20:45 |
| Dark_Shikari | for example, "fix a libavcodec bug" | 20:45 |
| ThomasWaldmann | but now i understand better how many student got their high score ;) | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | getting a bugfix written, in, nitpicked, edited, and approved takes days | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | if not a week or more | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | But finding a bug and fixing it can take a few hours. | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | So either you sit around doing nothing for one week | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | Or you go find and fix more bugs. | 20:46 |
| Dark_Shikari | Most people prefer the latter ;) | 20:46 |
| ThomasWaldmann | yes, i see how it is optimizing roundtrip, but the question if that is still conforming to the rules | 20:47 |
| ThomasWaldmann | or, maybe, if they don't explicitely tell already, whether that should be explicitely defined | 20:47 |
| Dark_Shikari | the only problem that occurs is when you have a limited resource of tasks, and students are competing for it | 20:48 |
| ThomasWaldmann | what happens for example if 2 students would fix same bug? | 20:48 |
| Dark_Shikari | it means you have to somehow, fairly, allocate tasks as students get them | 20:48 |
| Dark_Shikari | We had that issue with asm tasks | 20:48 |
| Dark_Shikari | what we would do is a student would claim the task on IRC before doing it | 20:48 |
| Dark_Shikari | and I would note down "this function is claimed" | 20:48 |
| Dark_Shikari | students could only claim one at a time, or at least, one category of functions (if they're all related and the same problem basically) | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | Once they completed a patch, they could go get another. | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | Sometimes I'd let them claim a few at once. | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | With bugs, it's trickier, as there's two types of bugfixes we dealt with: | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | 1) Pick bug in bugtracker, fix it. | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | That's easy to track, because they have numbers. | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | "I pick bug 2481" | 20:49 |
| Dark_Shikari | 2) Fuzz program, find crash, fix bug. | 20:50 |
| Dark_Shikari | That's harder to track. You can mostly just use luck and hope that no two people fuzz and find the same bug. | 20:50 |
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| ThomasWaldmann | did you ask about whether this is ok for the contest? | 20:51 |
| Dark_Shikari | yeah, I talked about it with them and there was no objections | 20:51 |
| Dark_Shikari | but nevermind that, everyone else is doing it too | 20:51 |
| Dark_Shikari | and if they did think it was wrong, they're stupid, because not being able to pipeline tasks would vastly cripple producitvity. | 20:52 |
| ThomasWaldmann | for me it sounds like you did a great job optimizing throughput of the system by not using melange and the procedure imposed on everybody else there. | 20:52 |
| * ThomasWaldmann also rather uses a taxi than running 5000m :P | 20:54 | |
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| Dark_Shikari | I think everyone who got anything done didn't really use melange. | 20:59 |
| Dark_Shikari | We required that all students get on and be on IRC. | 20:59 |
| Dark_Shikari | The tasks basically said "be active on IRC during your task(s), or don't bother" | 20:59 |
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| Kaythxbye | btw, any infos yet when we recieve our T-Shirts and the prizes? | 21:37 |
| dreimark | Dark_Shikari: good idea | 21:37 |
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