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| dbentle1 | Anyone here? | 05:16 |
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| solydzajs | dbentle1: ping | 07:17 |
| dbentle1 | Hey; what's up? | 07:17 |
| dbentle1 | This is Pawel? | 07:17 |
| solydzajs | yep :-) | 07:18 |
| solydzajs | Pawel :-) | 07:18 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: I saw your email regarding multiple lists | 07:18 |
| solydzajs | on one page | 07:18 |
| dbentle1 | Yeah. | 07:18 |
| dbentle1 | I also submitted one revision. | 07:18 |
| solydzajs | I'm reviewing commits right now :-) | 07:19 |
| dbentle1 | Right now I'm working on helper/lists.py to make getListContent use mutation less. | 07:19 |
| dbentle1 | Does that sound reasonably unobjectionable? | 07:19 |
| solydzajs | We are showing multiple list on one page in many places | 07:19 |
| solydzajs | yep :-) | 07:19 |
| dbentle1 | It's just kind of intimidating right now. | 07:19 |
| dbentle1 | For things like "list_key_order" and why that makes export happen... | 07:19 |
| solydzajs | it's Sverre's code, it's not really finished | 07:20 |
| solydzajs | and needs work | 07:20 |
| solydzajs | I agree | 07:20 |
| dbentle1 | OK. | 07:20 |
| solydzajs | regarding multiple lists on one page | 07:20 |
| dbentle1 | So far, my experience has been that there are many many layers... | 07:20 |
| dbentle1 | And so many files with similar names. | 07:20 |
| solydzajs | we are thinking about adding some tab js widget | 07:20 |
| solydzajs | and put each list on one tab on some views | 07:21 |
| dbentle1 | It seems that the average path as at least 1.5 of [base, view, model, logic] : P | 07:21 |
| solydzajs | but still multiple lists on one page will be needed in other places anyway | 07:21 |
| solydzajs | You will probably find a lot of code that could be optimized, the reason we didn't have time to do it is due to approaching GSoC deadlines | 07:22 |
| dbentle1 | Oh, su re. | 07:22 |
| dbentle1 | I mean, I don't care about optimization. | 07:22 |
| dbentle1 | It just seems like there are layers of indirection? | 07:22 |
| solydzajs | what do you mean by "indirection" ? | 07:23 |
| dbentle1 | Like, I'm not entirely sure what it wins to use getForFields and getQueryForFields instead of just making db.Query objects. | 07:23 |
| dbentle1 | I'm also not sure what filter is meant to accomplish in that regard. | 07:24 |
| dbentle1 | But it seems like it's creating a whole new API to the datastore on top of the base datastore one. Like, the unique parameter... | 07:24 |
| dbentle1 | You can already just call query.get() instead of getForfields(unique=True) on a query object... | 07:24 |
| dbentle1 | But because getForFields combines creating a query and executing it, it needs to be a parameter that changes the return type. | 07:25 |
| solydzajs | yep basically it creates query for you based on the parameters. And yes I agree that it makes things more complicated and simple db.Query would do the job in many places, let me have a look at source code | 07:26 |
| dbentle1 | OK. | 07:26 |
| dbentle1 | If you could explain the filter parameter, or show me examples of how it's used, or pages to load to see it used interestingly, that could help me a lot... | 07:27 |
| dbentle1 | BTW, did I hear that you're coming to New York at some point? | 07:27 |
| solydzajs | yep :-) I will be in NY office on 14th April till 21st of April | 07:28 |
| solydzajs | you will be there ? | 07:28 |
| dbentle1 | Great! I look forward to meeting you in person. | 07:28 |
| dbentle1 | Yeah; it's where I live. | 07:28 |
| solydzajs | awesome :-) | 07:28 |
| solydzajs | Are you going to be at Google I/O in May ? | 07:28 |
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| solydzajs | I will be in Mountain View and San Francisco from 23rd of May till 14th of June | 07:29 |
| dbentle1 | Oh; cool. | 07:30 |
| dbentle1 | I'll be there for that first week. | 07:30 |
| solydzajs | ok great | 07:30 |
| solydzajs | Sverre and Lennie will be there too for our Melange Dev Meeting and Google I/O basically 23-30 of May | 07:31 |
| solydzajs | and then I'm staying for Apple WWDC 2009 conference | 07:31 |
| dbentle1 | Oh, nice. | 07:31 |
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| solydzajs | getQueryForFields is really rarely use alone it's mostly used thru getForFields, but you can have a look at getQueryForFields usage in soc.views.models.program in slots() method | 07:34 |
| solydzajs | how filters are being used | 07:34 |
| dbentle1 | I saw getForFields, which still seems heavyweight and unwieldy. | 07:34 |
| dbentle1 | OK; thanks. | 07:34 |
| solydzajs | or assignedProposals() method in the same file | 07:34 |
| dbentle1 | Ah, okay. | 07:35 |
| solydzajs | getForFields was basically Sverre's generic approach for generating queries for our models | 07:35 |
| dbentle1 | Yeah; there seems to be so much generic that it can be hard to understand what's really happening. | 07:35 |
| dbentle1 | Maybe I'm just not smart enough. | 07:35 |
| dbentle1 | But it's clearer to me to see: q = db.Query(Foo); q.filter(something); q.filter(something_else); q.fetch(limit) | 07:36 |
| dbentle1 | Y'know? | 07:36 |
| solydzajs | yep I agree with you too much generic is hard to understand | 07:36 |
| solydzajs | and I already told that to Sverre, that not everything will be generic in this project | 07:36 |
| solydzajs | Yep it's clearer for me too, we can refactor that | 07:37 |
| solydzajs | and I would be +1 on that :-) | 07:37 |
| dbentle1 | OK. | 07:37 |
| dbentle1 | Cool. | 07:37 |
| solydzajs | it will be also faster | 07:37 |
| solydzajs | because it wouldn't have to generate those queries | 07:37 |
| solydzajs | and iterate over filter etc | 07:38 |
| dbentle1 | I mean, it will still do the same thing. | 07:38 |
| dbentle1 | So it won't be much at all faster. | 07:38 |
| solydzajs | yep, just a bit :-) | 07:38 |
| solydzajs | but the other reason for doing getForFields is because Todd wanted all the logic in logic modules, not in views | 07:39 |
| dbentle1 | Ah. | 07:39 |
| dbentle1 | I guess that distinction hasn't been clear to me... | 07:40 |
| solydzajs | and getForFields allowed as to quickly give a filter as parameter to this method and get data from logic into the view | 07:40 |
| dbentle1 | It just seems like there ends up being foo.py in 3 or more different places! | 07:40 |
| solydzajs | yep models, logic, views | 07:40 |
| solydzajs | and sometimes in html templates but that's html | 07:41 |
| dbentle1 | Hrm. | 07:41 |
| dbentle1 | And there's so much inheritance! | 07:41 |
| dbentle1 | (Google tends to be very light on inheritance...) | 07:41 |
| solydzajs | inheritance is not supported on GAE | 07:42 |
| solydzajs | for models | 07:42 |
| solydzajs | we use inheritance in views | 07:42 |
| mib_8hfola | guys, is there any problem with underlining and indentation | 07:42 |
| solydzajs | we have base view class | 07:42 |
| solydzajs | and we use it for logic | 07:42 |
| solydzajs | we have base logic class | 07:43 |
| dbentle1 | And yet, the User class inherits from soc.models.linkable.Linkable? | 07:43 |
| solydzajs | yep but it basically put's all the properties from Linkable to User class | 07:43 |
| solydzajs | cause in App Engine datastore you won't see any Linkable entities | 07:43 |
| solydzajs | just User entities | 07:43 |
| dbentle1 | Right. | 07:44 |
| solydzajs | we just use inheritance to avoid copy/pasting of properties | 07:44 |
| solydzajs | at least for models | 07:44 |
| dbentle1 | OK. | 07:44 |
| solydzajs | mib_8hfola: There should be none, if there is please create an issue on our issue tracker | 07:44 |
| dbentle1 | Anyway, I think I'm about to submit a small change to just get rid of some mutation. | 07:45 |
| dbentle1 | And then head to bed... | 07:45 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: the first design approach didn't use OOP at all | 07:45 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: just modules and functions | 07:45 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: if you go back in svn history to like September, October 2008 you will see | 07:45 |
| solydzajs | ok :-) | 07:45 |
| dbentle1 | So, views/helper/lists.py "shouldn't use queries directly because that's for logic"? | 07:45 |
| solydzajs | thanks for all your contributions | 07:46 |
| dbentle1 | Is that the theory? | 07:46 |
| solydzajs | yep that's the theory :-) | 07:46 |
| solydzajs | but as you see it's not always true | 07:46 |
| solydzajs | :-) | 07:46 |
| mib_8hfola | solydzajs: i submitted my application yesterday, the portion i underlined or indented would revert back. if it matters, i first created application in ms word, then copied it to the app | 07:46 |
| dbentle1 | Hrm; it's hard for me to see how it's better to recreate a seaprate but worse API that it calls instead... | 07:46 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: it's like 5AM in CA, what are you still doing up ?:-) | 07:47 |
| mib_8hfola | i would file a bug though | 07:47 |
| dbentle1 | Just got caught up. Really wanted to fix this. Discouraged I can't right now. : ( | 07:47 |
| solydzajs | mib_8hfola: copy pasting from Word doesn't work, it's TinyMCE problem (we have a fix but we didn't apply it yet) | 07:47 |
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| mib_8hfola | so its a known problem then | 07:48 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: you can propose refactoring of what you don't like | 07:48 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: how much time you will have for Melange ? 20% project ? | 07:49 |
| dbentle1 | Melange is one of my 80% projects. | 07:50 |
| dbentle1 | And taking on more and more of the "official" parts, like fighting fires and releasing it. | 07:50 |
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| solydzajs | dbentle1: oh ok good :-) | 07:51 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: I'm going to work on release script finally this week | 07:51 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: cause soc-google is taking too long | 07:51 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: so soon it will be easy to release melange official Google release and community release | 07:52 |
| dbentle1 | OK; I'd love to do reviews, because, yeah, some of that can be done simply, I think... | 07:52 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: on the same repository | 07:52 |
| dbentle1 | Great. | 07:52 |
| dbentle1 | Let me know how I can help. | 07:52 |
| solydzajs | will do | 07:52 |
| dbentle1 | Hrm; is there a good test suite for this? | 07:55 |
| dbentle1 | I want to check it in, but I don't want to break people. | 07:55 |
| dbentle1 | Also, where's an export link show up? | 07:55 |
| solydzajs | test suite for Melange ? | 07:56 |
| dbentle1 | Well, right now I'm working on lists helper, but yes. | 07:56 |
| solydzajs | we don't have much tests yet so don't worry about it, once we finish release script, I will add tests and pylint checker to buildbot | 07:57 |
| dbentle1 | OK... | 07:57 |
| solydzajs | and set post commit hooks on code.google.com | 07:57 |
| dbentle1 | I'm going to check in then go sleep... | 07:57 |
| solydzajs | cause Augie didn't finish that | 07:57 |
| solydzajs | yep you should it's late :-) | 07:58 |
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| dbentle1 | I've changed the gettingstarted wiki, the seed db script, and am about to do some changes to list helper. | 07:58 |
| dbentle1 | I hope to expand on all of these changes soon, so feedback is appreciated or else I'll just keep doing what I've been doing. | 07:58 |
| arun | does melange automatically flag some student apps as ineligible? we have two applications that are marked ineligible, and i don't think any of the mentors marked them that way. | 07:58 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: yep I reviewed wiki changes, they are ok. I'm reviewing r2769 right now | 08:00 |
| dbentle1 | Thanks. | 08:01 |
| dbentle1 | TTYL | 08:01 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: if you see +1 on code.google.com it's ok | 08:01 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: if it's neutral or negative you will get a comment | 08:01 |
| dbentle1 | Got it. | 08:01 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: we decided to stop sending LGTM. comments and just set Positive instead without comment | 08:01 |
| dbentle1 | oh, okay. : ( That's what that was about? I like the explicit reinforcement! | 08:02 |
| dbentle1 | But can deal with either way. : ) | 08:02 |
| solydzajs | arun: Students can mark their proposals as ineligible too (invalid). | 08:02 |
| solydzajs | arun: those have the same status as "Mark as Ineligible" done by Mentors or Org admins | 08:02 |
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| solydzajs | dbentle1: there was way too much spam in the inbox after I did review of 30 commits or even more :-) | 08:03 |
| arun | solydzajs, gotcha. thanks for the info. i looked again, and it looks like they've submitted new versions of their app. i'm guessing the students marked their earlier proposals as ineligible. | 08:04 |
| solydzajs | arun: yep I guess so too :-) | 08:04 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: ttyl :-) | 08:05 |
| solydzajs | dbentle1: thx | 08:05 |
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| forever | hi, all | 09:07 |
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| diones | SRabbelier: Hi | 12:41 |
| SRabbelier | diones: heya! | 12:41 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: yo :-) | 12:43 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: I had a discussion with Dan today | 12:43 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I read | 12:43 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Is there a place where the packages structure of melange is explained? | 12:43 |
| SRabbelier | diones: uhm.. well.. I don't think so actually; but it's rather easy | 12:44 |
| solydzajs | SRabbelier: ok, and what do you think ? | 12:44 |
| SRabbelier | diones: we have the app/ folder, which contains our code | 12:44 |
| SRabbelier | diones: then the /soc folder in there is the bulk of Melange | 12:45 |
| SRabbelier | diones: We the gsoc and ghop directories in /app for ghop/gsoc specific things | 12:45 |
| diones | hmm | 12:45 |
| SRabbelier | diones: then in /app/soc we have /models, which, obviously, contain all our models | 12:46 |
| SRabbelier | diones: there's also /logic there, which has all the logic code, typically that's stuff like getting entities from the database, etc. | 12:46 |
| SRabbelier | diones: in /logic/models there's the model specific logic | 12:47 |
| SRabbelier | diones: (for example, the User logic makes sure a user's old account is stored when it's changed) | 12:47 |
| diones | hmm | 12:47 |
| SRabbelier | diones: and then we have /views, where all the view code is (mainly, the part that turns the entities retrieved by the logic into html) | 12:48 |
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| SRabbelier | diones: in /views/models again is the model specific views | 12:48 |
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| SRabbelier | diones: such as having the accepted orgs list show all orgs, and having the notification view show only your notifications, etc. | 12:49 |
| diones | hmm | 12:52 |
| SRabbelier | diones: that's a lot of hmming :P | 12:53 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Its a lot of concepts :) | 12:53 |
| SRabbelier | diones: am I making sense though? | 12:54 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Yes you are, just the view part is still a bit confusing | 12:54 |
| SRabbelier | diones: ok, why so? | 12:55 |
| diones | SRabbelier: To me it sounds a bit like the logic package but with methods specific about what should be presented to the user | 12:55 |
| SRabbelier | diones: well, no, the view dispatches to the logic code | 12:56 |
| SRabbelier | diones: so it goes "give me all srabbelier's notifications" | 12:56 |
| SRabbelier | diones: and then it renders those as a HTML page | 12:56 |
| SRabbelier | diones: the logic code has no clue about HTML, it might as well be used by something rendering in Qt | 12:57 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Hmm, I see | 12:58 |
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| diones | SRabbelier: Where are the request handlers? | 13:02 |
| SRabbelier | diones: Django does that for us | 13:03 |
| SRabbelier | diones: but see sitemap/build.py | 13:03 |
| SRabbelier | diones: it (surprise surprise) builds the sitemap | 13:03 |
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| diones | SRabbelier: This is so high level | 13:06 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Kind of lvl99 | 13:06 |
| SRabbelier | diones: the sitemap stuff? | 13:07 |
| diones | SRabbelier: So, about the tests, | 13:07 |
| diones | SRabbelier: and the main.py | 13:07 |
| SRabbelier | diones: the main.py? | 13:08 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Yep I can barely understand the python keywords | 13:08 |
| diones | SRabbelier: And thats all | 13:09 |
| SRabbelier | diones: the python keywords? | 13:09 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Just kidding | 13:09 |
| SRabbelier | diones: april fools? :P | 13:09 |
| diones | SRabbelier: Hell I almost forgot its april fools | 13:10 |
| SRabbelier | diones: ehe | 13:10 |
| diones | SRabbelier: So, about the tests | 13:11 |
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| SRabbelier | diones: what about them? :) | 13:11 |
| diones | SRabbelier: I understand almost everything that is there(except for the mock tests but thats just because I'm too newbie at unit tests, I guess). | 13:13 |
| SRabbelier | diones: the mock test isn't that complicated | 13:13 |
| SRabbelier | diones: you know how in python even functions are objects? | 13:14 |
| diones | yes | 13:14 |
| SRabbelier | diones: as such, they can be set to something else | 13:14 |
| SRabbelier | diones: so I can do "sys.out = StringIO.StringIO()" | 13:15 |
| diones | SRabbelier: ok | 13:15 |
| SRabbelier | diones: so what the mock does | 13:15 |
| SRabbelier | diones: is it overrides the property specified with something else | 13:16 |
| SRabbelier | diones: in this case, the method we use to render HTML | 13:16 |
| Erant | I think you guys can do without the <name>: now | 13:16 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: habit | 13:16 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: and not anymore, since you interrupted us! | 13:16 |
| Erant | Oh, the shame. | 13:17 |
| diones | hahahahah | 13:17 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: did you submit your proposal yet? | 13:17 |
| Erant | No. Probably won't. | 13:18 |
| Erant | Due to rockbox not accepting ports, there's not enough in Melange to do (security-wise), and me possibly have something else to do over the summer. | 13:19 |
| Erant | s/have/having | 13:19 |
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| diones | SRabbelier: so about the smoke tests | 13:21 |
| diones | SRabbelier: how do I do them? | 13:22 |
| diones | SRabbelier: :D | 13:22 |
| Erant | Smoking's bad for you, hmmkay | 13:22 |
| Lennie|Gone | Erant, I was more wondering if you submitted a proposal to another org :) | 13:25 |
| diones | xD | 13:25 |
| Erant | Lennie: So, no. I might actually do a rockbox project outside of GSoC though | 13:25 |
| SRabbelier | diones: what about smoke tests? | 13:25 |
| Erant | Porting it to this: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14585 | 13:25 |
| tpb | Title: DealExtreme: $47.72 7" Wide Screen TFT LCD Desktop Digital Photo Frame and Video Player with Remote (480*234px) (at www.dealextreme.com) | 13:25 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: you _got_ to be kidding me | 13:26 |
| Erant | Either that, or I'm porting Linux to it. | 13:26 |
| Erant | What? | 13:26 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: a media player on a photo frame? | 13:26 |
| Erant | Sure | 13:26 |
| Erant | It's not just a photo frame. | 13:26 |
| Erant | It can also play DivX and whatnot | 13:26 |
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| SRabbelier | Erant: orly? fancy | 13:27 |
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| diones | SRabbelier: how does someone create a smoke test? | 13:29 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: Yuh. Got no idea what kind of proc it is though. And there are no existing firmware upgrades. So it's going to be hoping I can find JTAG, or a serial bootloader. I might end up having to dump the flash. | 13:30 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: defnitly more than one GSoC | 13:31 |
| Erant | Depends. | 13:31 |
| SRabbelier | diones: for example, a smoke test would be "create a user profile" by doing a POST with a bunch of arguments and checking that the entity is created | 13:31 |
| Erant | If I find a serial bootloader, and docs on the proc, it's much faster then if I have to dump and reflash the NAND. | 13:31 |
| SRabbelier | diones: or it might even just be to check that access to a document is only allowed when the right privilidges are met | 13:32 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: indeed, so, since you don't know that, and it probably won't be there -> more than one gsoc | 13:32 |
| diones | SRabbelier: hmm I see | 13:32 |
| Erant | Yup. Still an interesting project. | 13:32 |
| Erant | Though the chances of it being there are actually pretty decent. Chinese tend to steal bootloaders, and then not modify them. | 13:44 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: lol | 13:45 |
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| ajaksu | SRabbelier: sorry to drag you into an application-related discussion, thank you very much for your input! would you like an issue filled for 'other' in degree or is it not worth it? | 13:55 |
| SRabbelier | ajaksu: we'll see what lh sez :) | 13:56 |
| ajaksu | ok | 13:56 |
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| Lennie | SRabbelier: seen http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/04/01/ ? | 14:19 |
| tpb | Title: Introducing Opera Face Gestures (at labs.opera.com) | 14:19 |
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| SRabbelier | Lennie: yup :P | 14:20 |
| Lennie | it's awesome :P | 14:20 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: I read the nu.nl article about april fools jokes | 14:20 |
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| SRabbelier | Lennie: Please note that handlebars and goatees are compatible independently but if combined recognition will decrease. | 14:22 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: lmao | 14:22 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: " At the moment soul-patches crashes the browser and it refuses to relaunch, we are looking into this problem. Bushmen beards and emo haircuts are not supported.", omfg, hilarious | 14:23 |
| jamtoday | SRabbelier: I just linked to docs for the django testrunner on the testing wiki page http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/TestingGuidelines | 14:23 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/2N$:> (at code.google.com) | 14:23 |
| SRabbelier | jamtoday: ah, good one | 14:24 |
| pankajk | any easy ideas for gsoc | 14:26 |
| SRabbelier | pankajk: nope | 14:27 |
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| Erant | pankajk: It's not about being easy :/ | 14:28 |
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| MatthewWilkes | ooh, 45 people, busy busy in here | 14:56 |
| MatthewWilkes | hi all! | 14:56 |
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| Erant | ohai | 15:03 |
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| tuxmaniac | madrazr: ping | 15:19 |
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| SRabbelier | MatthewWilkes: heya :) | 15:27 |
| Erant | btw, SRabbelier: Any intention of going to HAR? | 15:29 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: HAR? | 15:29 |
| Erant | Hacking at Random? | 15:29 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: wossat? | 15:29 |
| Lennie | Horse of the Americas Registry | 15:30 |
| Lennie | ? | 15:30 |
| Erant | ... | 15:30 |
| Lennie | lol HAR: Hope After Rape | 15:30 |
| Lennie | http://www.acronymfinder.com/HAR.html | 15:30 |
| tpb | Title: HAR - Definition by AcronymFinder (at www.acronymfinder.com) | 15:30 |
| MatthewWilkes | Lennie: Dude… | 15:30 |
| Erant | Almost thought that came out of your demented mind O_o | 15:30 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: .... dude | 15:30 |
| Erant | Anyway... | 15:30 |
| Erant | Moving on from this awkward situation...\ | 15:30 |
| SRabbelier | Lennie: totally not appropriate :P | 15:31 |
| Lennie | MatthewWilkes, that is an organization that helps victims right? | 15:31 |
| MatthewWilkes | No clue, but hardly a lol topic | 15:31 |
| danderson | in any case, I don't see what hydrologic assessment reports have to do with melange | 15:31 |
| Erant | https://har2009.org/ | 15:31 |
| tpb | Title: HAR2009 » Hacking at Random (at har2009.org) | 15:31 |
| SRabbelier | danderson: lol :P | 15:31 |
| Erant | Hackfest ftw. | 15:31 |
| Lennie | that looks more on topic :) | 15:32 |
| Erant | Was wondering if Google was going there. Or maybe Melange. | 15:32 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: maybe both! | 15:32 |
| Erant | The term "5000+ hackers" actually applies here. | 15:33 |
| Erant | And is valid. | 15:33 |
| Erant | :P | 15:33 |
| Lennie | ^^ | 15:33 |
| Erant | "The New York Times likened the 1997 edition to a “Woodstock for Hackers”." | 15:34 |
| Erant | Minus the hippies. | 15:34 |
| Erant | If it's anything like CCC | 15:34 |
| Lennie | hehe | 15:35 |
| Lennie | it's on a camping? | 15:35 |
| Lennie | anyhow I'm off | 15:35 |
| Lennie | feeling sick :( | 15:35 |
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| summatusmentis | woo spam on melange-soc-dev | 15:51 |
| SRabbelier | summatusmentis: hehe | 15:51 |
| summatusmentis | unless that's you SRabbelier >_> | 15:52 |
| SRabbelier | summatusmentis: it's already deleted right? | 15:52 |
| summatusmentis | I saw two by a jtyjfj, but nothing about deletion | 15:53 |
| SRabbelier | summatusmentis: twas deleteded | 15:53 |
| summatusmentis | k | 15:53 |
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| * lh waves to dan | 15:55 | |
| SRabbelier | dbentle1, dbentley-laptop: you mailed? :) | 15:56 |
| waldi | how can I get rid of a student role? | 15:58 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: How's your reverse engineering? | 16:00 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: uhm, why? | 16:02 |
| SRabbelier | waldi: you can't | 16:02 |
| SRabbelier | waldi: why do you want to? | 16:02 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o solydzajs | 16:02 | |
| waldi | SRabbelier: switch from student to mentor | 16:07 |
| SRabbelier | waldi: ask solydzajs | 16:08 |
| SRabbelier | waldi: he can delete your student role | 16:08 |
| solydzajs | what's up ? | 16:08 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: waldi needs his student role deleted so he can be a mentor | 16:08 |
| solydzajs | waldi: did you submitted some proposals ? | 16:10 |
| waldi | nope | 16:10 |
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| EllenKo | Hello Melange Developers, | 16:11 |
| * MatthewWilkes waves to EllenKo | 16:11 | |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: o hi ^^ | 16:11 |
| EllenKo | I am trying to get an export of the student data (names, addresses) to give to our payment card company | 16:11 |
| EllenKo | actually, someone from Google just needs to look at dummy data, | 16:12 |
| EllenKo | but in our format, so she knows how to make it fit the payment card people's template | 16:12 |
| EllenKo | srabbelier: hi! | 16:12 |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: I can give you a full export by the time you need it, no worries :) | 16:13 |
| EllenKo | can I get one now, just so our accounting person can know what to expect when the list is actually finalized? | 16:13 |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: uhm, expect all the data you need that's in the system I guess? | 16:14 |
| EllenKo | I just need something to show how the data will be formatted | 16:14 |
| EllenKo | for the students | 16:15 |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: however you want, I can give you a csv export | 16:15 |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: I can remove columns you don't need | 16:15 |
| SRabbelier | EllenKo: you tell me what you need | 16:15 |
| EllenKo | that would be great. | 16:15 |
| EllenKo | Names and addresses | 16:15 |
| lh | solydzajs: may i ask you for a student applicant count and proposal count please | 16:16 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I can do it :) | 16:16 |
| SRabbelier | lh: have the script ready anyway | 16:16 |
| lh | SRabbelier: okey dokey, sounds good | 16:17 |
| solydzajs | waldi, please send me an email to pawel.solyga (at) gmail.com with your link id from your Google Account that you use for socghop.appspot.com | 16:18 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: Just got an interesting challenge in my inbox. New llvm based obfuscation. | 16:18 |
| solydzajs | lh: yes doing it now one sec | 16:18 |
| lh | solydzajs: merci | 16:18 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: Unladen Swallow? | 16:19 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: I'm thinking of making it work incrementally | 16:19 |
| SRabbelier | solydzajs: using last_modified and created_on | 16:19 |
| waldi | solydzajs: "link id"? | 16:19 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: Nah, from an israely company. | 16:19 |
| SRabbelier | waldi: yes, you set it in /user/edit_profile | 16:19 |
| waldi | ah, okay | 16:20 |
| Erant | 's interesting. IDA Pro can't render the graph of the code because it's too big. | 16:20 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: that's.... nice hack :P | 16:21 |
| waldi | solydzajs: sent | 16:21 |
| solydzajs | waldi: will check in a minute | 16:21 |
| solydzajs | waldi: done. | 16:22 |
| solydzajs | waldi: let me know if it works | 16:25 |
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| VDVsx | hello all | 16:49 |
| VDVsx | some of our student's apps are in the ineligible list, but none of our mentor mark them. | 16:50 |
| VDVsx | The student's can withdraw proposals in melange ? | 16:50 |
| SRabbelier | VDVsx: yes | 16:50 |
| VDVsx | SRabbelier, ok, thanks | 16:50 |
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| dbentley-laptop | Hello all. | 17:23 |
| James--Crook | dbentley-laptop: Hi Dan. +1 on better GettingStartedGuide. | 17:26 |
| James--Crook | Aren't you a tad sleep deprived at the moment? | 17:26 |
| Erant | Can sleep when you're dead. | 17:26 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: also, can be dead from no sleep | 17:26 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: so fine edge you walk right there | 17:26 |
| James--Crook | Hi Erant, so you're not applying to Melange? Waaaaah :-( | 17:27 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: he's a big ol' slacker | 17:27 |
| Erant | Uhhuh. | 17:27 |
| James--Crook | He'd fit right in :-) | 17:28 |
| Erant | Burn. | 17:28 |
| James--Crook | SRabbelier: so any thoghts on me adding those two issues? | 17:28 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: that's harsh :P | 17:28 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: right, about that | 17:29 |
| James--Crook | I mean it's been at least 5 hours and no reply.... slacker slacker... :-) | 17:29 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: we removed all those stories and future issues from view because people were going "well, this tracker is so full, it's like last years where no-one is doing anything with my issues, I'm not even going to bother" | 17:29 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: 23 hours even :P | 17:29 |
| James--Crook | Yes, It's undertsandable. | 17:29 |
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| James--Crook | ...understandable marking issues which are not closed as closed.... (oh dear that sounds sarcastic and it's not meant to be) | 17:30 |
| Erant | James: So I'm probably going to be working on an embedded project, and I've also got a job to worry about. | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: also, I think two more issues won't do much harm in cluttering the issue tracker, I won't close them, but I'm not sure how high I want them in the priority-list, mhh | 17:30 |
| Erant | And _maaybe_ I'm going to wiggle my way into a security evaluation company. | 17:30 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: keep dreaming | 17:31 |
| James--Crook | Erant: Way more important that you do what calls to you... and embedded clearly does. (as does the lucre of a real job) | 17:31 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: you speak wise words :) | 17:31 |
| James--Crook | Erant: and if you want to hack the metro and stuff then embedded is essential... | 17:31 |
| * SRabbelier cackles | 17:31 | |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: he's totally going to do that you know | 17:31 |
| Erant | James: Well, I actually already have a job ;) | 17:32 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: one of these days, there's going to be the Erant card | 17:32 |
| * Erant whistles | 17:32 | |
| James--Crook | (already he has.... I'm watching him :-) ) | 17:32 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: which allows you to walk into our uni with it thinking you're the rector magnificus :P | 17:32 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: We're actually in the process of designing the PCB now | 17:32 |
| James--Crook | careful... this is a family channel | 17:32 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: what it do? | 17:32 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: hehe | 17:32 |
| Erant | Our resident VHDL genius wrote the code already for Miller decoding and Manchester encoding. So now we're looking at a likely candidate for the CPU. | 17:33 |
| James--Crook | SRabbelier: anyway... any harm if I add those two issues or would you rather I didn't? | 17:33 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: Interfaces to one of those RFID readers, makes them 10 times more 1337. | 17:33 |
| Erant | 1337 as in: Will do _aaaanything_ you want. | 17:33 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: hehe, fancy pancy | 17:34 |
| Erant | Because the interface we're using is basically the digital representation of what's happening at the RF side. | 17:34 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: how about making it Type-Task? | 17:34 |
| James--Crook | In the Irish times today it said they are thinking of RFID tagging 'tax exiles' to track them... so we can see if they are really out of the country for the time they say they are. | 17:35 |
| James--Crook | Good idea. Pity that it was an April Fool. | 17:35 |
| Erant | I'm thinking of tagging my shoes. And my gloves. And my toothbrush. And socks. | 17:36 |
| Erant | Actually. | 17:36 |
| James--Crook | ...so they don't get stolen? Phah... who would want to steal your socks? | 17:36 |
| * Erant looks for something interesting to tag. | 17:36 | |
| Erant | No, for identification purposes, obv. | 17:36 |
| James--Crook | Umm. This is a family channel. | 17:36 |
| Erant | :P | 17:36 |
| * Erant takes shoes. | 17:37 | |
| James--Crook | Type Task works for me too, if that is not a closed issue, but doesn't that push it up the list? | 17:37 |
| Erant | Sweet. I now have RFID tagged shoes. | 17:39 |
| James--Crook | SRabbelier: Oh, I just looked... task is below enhancement. Yes that works fine. | 17:39 |
| James--Crook | Erant: I thought RFIDs confused the scanner if they were too close to each other... hence the door DOS attack where you stick an RFID strip near to the door scanner. How close can they be and still be distinguished? | 17:41 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: ok, go for it then :) | 17:42 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: you got to be kidding me | 17:42 |
| Erant | SRabbelier: You must know me well enough by now to know that that is not a joke. | 17:42 |
| James--Crook | SRabbelier: Will do, though maybe not tonight. Lots to do with the Audacity GSoC (even though I am not officially involved this year). | 17:42 |
| Erant | James: No? RFID has anti-collision. | 17:42 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: *sighs*, it's all to true | 17:43 |
| SRabbelier | James--Crook: hehe, funny how those things work | 17:43 |
| James--Crook | Erant: And it works well? | 17:43 |
| Erant | Decent enough. The algorithms are public though, so you can block out one specific tag if you knew it's UID. | 17:44 |
| Erant | By sending out bogus information right at it's time slots. | 17:44 |
| James--Crook | Erant: And you could block em all out if you can sink the energy... but not with a standard tag? | 17:45 |
| Erant | Sweet. It works. | 17:45 |
| Erant | James: Euh, no. Needs to be an active tag | 17:45 |
| Erant | And we're building one :) | 17:46 |
| Erant | Now what do I make my shoe do... | 17:46 |
| James--Crook | Now you can tell which is your right shoe and which is your left... Most of us got there years ago, but harah for technology. | 17:46 |
| Erant | Exactly | 17:46 |
| Erant | OOOH | 17:46 |
| Erant | Make it pop up "LEFT" and "RIGHT" really big. | 17:46 |
| James--Crook | I shall leave this channel before Erant gets too many other ideas. | 17:47 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: lol.... :P | 17:47 |
| Erant | No no no, stay. I have 38 other tags I can stick onto random stuff | 17:47 |
| SRabbelier | lol | 17:47 |
| Erant | Bottom of a coffee cup doesn't work too well. I need to be able to wash that. | 17:48 |
| SRabbelier | -_-" | 17:48 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: chair? | 17:48 |
| Erant | lol | 17:50 |
| Erant | Teh awsum. I can make my left and right shoes control the volume on my PC | 17:50 |
| Erant | I am so doing that | 17:50 |
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| Erant | Right, time for sleep. | 18:33 |
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| SRabbelier | Erant: that was like, hours ago | 18:33 |
| Erant | tru dat | 18:33 |
| Erant | nm then | 18:33 |
| MatthewWilkes | Can we reimplement melange on Zope 4? It's the new next-gen python framework | 18:34 |
| MatthewWilkes | Look at the logo: http://blingee.com/blingee/view/87449265-Blingee ! | 18:34 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/35Wc> (at blingee.com) | 18:34 |
| MatthewWilkes | How can you say no to that? | 18:34 |
| Erant | That site hurts my eyes | 18:35 |
| MatthewWilkes | Well, if anyone wants more info on Zope 4, we're in #zope4 | 18:35 |
| MatthewWilkes | It's really easy to use, all site config is done in HTML4, as XML is too complicated | 18:36 |
| Erant | lol | 18:36 |
| dbentley-laptop | Hey Melange. | 18:36 |
| dbentley-laptop | So, sverre: how do we mail so many people at once? | 18:37 |
| dbentley-laptop | Remote API? | 18:37 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: nope, we have an AJAX script atm :P | 18:37 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: that just pokes at an URL which makes it process a proposal | 18:37 |
| Erant | Oh, that's not icky at all. | 18:38 |
| Erant | That's... euhm... | 18:38 |
| SRabbelier | MatthewWilkes: april fools, right? | 18:38 |
| Erant | ingenious. | 18:38 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: that's a nasty hack, that's what it is | 18:38 |
| Erant | I didn't want to say it. | 18:38 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: so much for GAE having long running/scheduled tasks | 18:38 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: yes you did you big fat liar :p | 18:39 |
| Erant | :P | 18:39 |
| Erant | k, yes I did. | 18:39 |
| SRabbelier | :P | 18:39 |
| Erant | Though | 18:39 |
| Erant | There's the good kind of 'nasty hack'. And there's the bad kind. | 18:39 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: yours are usually of the latter kind | 18:39 |
| Erant | I'll leave it up to the viewer to decide which bin to toss this one in. | 18:40 |
| SRabbelier | s/usually// | 18:40 |
| Erant | Pfrt. | 18:40 |
| Erant | I have elegant solutions. | 18:40 |
| SRabbelier | I don't think many would agree | 18:40 |
| Erant | Liek try/catch for file IO. | 18:40 |
| dbentley-laptop | Hrm; okay. | 18:40 |
| Erant | It was asum. | 18:40 |
| Erant | I must've made a few people go seriously crazy in my first year. | 18:41 |
| Erant | bash-head-into-wall-till-it-bleeds crazy. | 18:41 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: indeed | 18:42 |
| Erant | "You... you what?" "Well, I just made this hash algorithm ... and this way it all works". "AAAAAAHHHH!" | 18:42 |
| Erant | Maybe not such a good idea to use C hax in Java. | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: I think it was actually like: | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | try { | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | for(int i = 0;; i++) { | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | // do stuff } | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | } catch(IndexOutOfBoundsException) {} | 18:43 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: actually, that's what hasCode() is for :P | 18:43 |
| Erant | That was one of 'm. | 18:43 |
| Erant | Yeah, I reimplemented that at one point | 18:44 |
| *** Merio has quit IRC | 18:44 | |
| Erant | I also did the try/catch for a file IO operation where I didn't know where the EOF was. | 18:44 |
| Erant | But then again, Java fails at IO operations in general. | 18:45 |
| SRabbelier | **hashCode | 18:45 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: so can we have this guy on standby when sending out student acceptance mails? | 18:45 |
| Erant | Sleep for real now though | 18:46 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: g'night! | 18:46 |
| *** Erant was kicked by SRabbelier (SRabbelier) | 18:46 | |
| SRabbelier | only way to get rid of the bugger | 18:46 |
| lh | lol | 18:46 |
| SRabbelier | ^_^ | 18:46 |
| SRabbelier | lh: I'd do the same with you to send you to bed, but people would complain | 18:47 |
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| Erant | fu | 18:47 |
| dbentley-laptop | Yes; we can. | 18:47 |
| SRabbelier | Erant: Go sleep! :P | 18:47 |
| lh | lol | 18:47 |
| Erant | Am now. But you won't know. Through the magic of bouncers. | 18:47 |
| *** Erant was kicked by SRabbelier (don't make me ban you! :P) | 18:47 | |
| dbentley-laptop | But if we have a way to simulate this load earlier, that'd be great. | 18:47 |
| *** Erant has joined #melange | 18:47 | |
| dbentley-laptop | Because we can have time ot fight fighers. | 18:47 |
| Erant | Don't MAKE me come down there | 18:47 |
| SRabbelier | lol :P | 18:47 |
| Erant | 'nite ;) | 18:47 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: mhhhh, we could set up a bunch of entities on melange-dev | 18:48 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: and have them all send mails to [email protected]? :P | 18:48 |
| dbentley-laptop | Yeah. | 18:48 |
| SRabbelier | but that won't help us in the case the problem lies in who we mail | 18:49 |
| SRabbelier | or the mailing of many different people | 18:49 |
| SRabbelier | etc. | 18:49 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: ^^^ | 18:50 |
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| dbentley-laptop | Yeah. | 18:54 |
| dbentley-laptop | That makes sense. | 18:54 |
| SRabbelier | dbentley-laptop: so it's something that shouldn't be happening? | 18:56 |
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| vinod | do i need to submit any certificates to GSoC to prove my identity. if so when to submit them? | 19:44 |
| SRabbelier | vinod: wrong channel | 19:45 |
| vinod | ok thank you. | 19:45 |
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| GMWeezel | Hello, I just submitted a proposal for figleaf testing to GSoC. Would someone remind reviewing it and giving me some feedback? | 20:08 |
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| MatthewWilkes | GMWeezel: Most of the Melange dev team is based in Europe, they've all gone to bed now, best to email the mailing list | 20:11 |
| GMWeezel | Alright, thank you. | 20:11 |
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| ajaksu | GMWeezel: figleaf for melange or in general? either way, the 'testing in python' mailing list could get you some nice feedback :) | 20:17 |
| ajaksu | GMWeezel: http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/testing-in-python | 20:17 |
| tpb | <http://ln-s.net/35Xj> (at lists.idyll.org) | 20:17 |
| GMWeezel | figleaf for melange | 20:20 |
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| paulitex | sdfgs | 23:31 |
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| Nik | hello everybody!!! | 23:52 |
| Nik | is there any gsoc 2009 aspirant here??? | 23:53 |
| Nik | Hi, I am Swagnik Chatterjee | 23:54 |
| Nik | I am very interested to apply for Melange in GSOC2009 | 23:54 |
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